Refill Propane vs Exchange

[Joseph_T1]

We were camping at Killbear Provincial Park recently. It's a park we routinely go to and there is store just outside the park that sells the usual supplies including refilling of propane tanks. I was disappointed to find out that the owner had gotten rid of his refill service.

When I asked him about it he told me that the cost of getting the required licence and the cost of the liability insurance was prohibitive as he simply did not sell enough to justify the cost.

This concerns me that it might be an indication of where the industry is going. We have no problem getting our tanks refilled in major centres, but I wonder if finding refill stations is going to get harder and harder.

Also I bought a small 10 lb tank for my BBQ. Those are not available at exchange locations.

FYI

[aftermath]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Not that this matters much to most RVes, but ...

What you get at your refill station is not likely 100% pure propane (C3H8). It is typically blend with butane (C4H10), which is a bit cheaper. The amount of butane typically depends on the time of year. One problem with butane is that its boiling point (the point where it turn from liquid to vapor) is around 34F (1C) while propane is about -44F (-42C).

In winter, if your tank contains a high concentration of butane (from a summer fill up) you may not have enough vapor to actually get it to burn !

I believe this also qualifies as a crock. Please explain how going to a refill station gets you inferior propane. I have done this for over 30 years and have camped in the 20's a few times. Never had trouble with my propane. And, are you saying getting an exchange gets you better propane? What? In my area the big propane dealers drive out and fill large home tanks. These same trucks will go to a refill dealer and fill their tanks too. Please support your claim here. I think it is all wet which is a nicer way to say the same thing as you did earlier.

[mobeewan]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
One thing about exchanging tanks. Most of them do not fill the tanks. Instead of 20 lbs you will get 16.

20 lb propane bottle exchanges are one of the biggest rip offs in the modern world of conveniences. They do tell you (in fine print) that they only put 15 lbs of propane in the tank for "safety" reasons. That is a CROCK OF SH!T. The tank is deigned, tested and certified to hold 20 lbs. There is even a built in Overfill Protection Device (OPD) to prevent this occurrence.

Definitely a crock. Fewer pounds or fewer gallons inside the cylinder make no difference to the integrity of the cylinder and valve. Whether there is 1 pound or 20 pounds of liquid propane the pressure inside the cylinder is still the same.

[CavemanCharlie]

There are very few refill places near me. But, the exchange places are everywhere. I can refill my own tanks from the large tank on the farm but, I have gotten lazy they last couple of years and sometimes I just buy a exchange.

[ItsyRV]

gkainz wrote:
and the 15 gallon fill in the 20 gallon bottle is part of that profitability formula.

Actually, it come about to make money not lose money. When a large major discount retailer demanded lower prices on the exchange cylinders, the company said it wasn't possible considering all the cost (product, refilling, maintaining cages, advertising, taking in expired cylinders, regulation cost, and transportation) but they offered a lower price if the amount was reduced from 20 lbs to 17 lbs. The retailer balked and threaten to go to another vendor. However the major vendors already were aware of the price squeeze so they got together and agreed to set a minimum price and not to budge. They agreed to reduce volume to match the price that retailer wanted to pay even if it meant only 15 lbs of propane. The concern was if they did that deep discount for one all the other retailers would make similar demands.

However, that major discount retailer ratted them out to the feds.
The feds sued and a settlement was reached. The vendors agreed to a fine but was able to get a concession that those exchange cylinders will have a posted and inspected minimum of at least 15 lbs while some may be more. The price advertised is based on that minimum with no additional charge for any extra lbs in the cylinder.

As a consumer, you just have to know you are really paying for 15 lbs of pre-packaged propane in a currently certified cylinder. If you want the best deal, get a cylinder that has a content weight over 15 lbs. I have no shame in weighting the cylinders and picking the one with the most content weight. If I can't read the Tare weight, I grab another. Takes all of 2 minutes to find a 18+ content lb cylinder.

[westernrvparkow]

buc1980 wrote:
I was surprise when I refill my 40lb. bottles to be charge by the bottle and not by the gallon.One was empty but the other one has some propane left.So when you refill be sure the bottles are empty if not you will pay more per gallon .

Before we quit propane completely, we had to go to a minimum charge. People would come in to fill their tanks and bottles and they would be purchasing 7/10th of a gallon. Filling bottles and tanks can be a dirty, nasty time consuming job and we were losing money and overtaxing the employees on those small fills. A minimum charge at least moderated the problem.

[2012Coleman]

gkainz wrote:
I have to believe the propane exchange industry has factored in the cost of recertification of expired bottles they get in return, as well as the disposal of the completely unserviceable pile of rust that got recycled back into their system, and the 15 gallon fill in the 20 gallon bottle is part of that profitability formula. If you know what you're getting and decide, then good. If you DON'T know, then it's a ripoff.

Well, if they don't, then they should. The only time I exchanged was when my local ACE hardware guy said he couldn't fill my pristine tank, because it was too old. Exchanged it for one at the Blue Rhino at the gas station. The lady let me look at the tanks an pick the one I wanted. Tore off the BR label, and continue to refill it at ACE. I'm betting they can recertify them at minimal cost.

[gkainz]

I have to believe the propane exchange industry has factored in the cost of recertification of expired bottles they get in return, as well as the disposal of the completely unserviceable pile of rust that got recycled back into their system, and the 15 gallon fill in the 20 gallon bottle is part of that profitability formula. If you know what you're getting and decide, then good. If you DON'T know, then it's a ripoff.

[Grit_dog]

^ That must be just a store policy for additional profit. Everywhere I’ve been still does by the gallon.

[buc1980]

I was surprise when I refill my 40lb. bottles to be charge by the bottle and not by the gallon.One was empty but the other one has some propane left.So when you refill be sure the bottles are empty if not you will pay more per gallon .

[mgirardo]

Where we camp seasonally has propane refill, but it is expensive: $25 for 20lb, $35 for 30lb. There are plenty of places that exchange 20lb tanks for $16 - $17, but there are plenty of places that refill as well. We usually take our tanks to the RV Dealer we bought our MH and TT from. This summer they were the cheapest place around. What would have cost $70 from the campground, cost $54.

In the past 12 years that we have lived here, there have been 3 places that I can get propane refill within a few miles of the house. We lost one of those places a few years ago because the place went out of business. Perhaps it is a local trend where you live, but not where we live or where we camp seasonally.

-Michael

[valhalla360]

Yes they are moving more and more to exchange...the vast majority of sales are your typical BBQ tank and it saves them the hassle of teaching someone to fill.

I'm kind of surprised, manufacturers haven't started spec'ing 3-4 BBQ tanks instead of a couple 30lb tanks.

[BB_TX]

Thanks Beverley&Ken for getting back to the OP’s question. :B

[Beverley_Ken]

Here in Ontario , it’s more about cost to the dealer / campground to provide the service. When regulations were changed , maybe 10 years ago, the cost for small operations became ridiculous, The Campgroud owner said that the initial inspection, new mandatory equipment would have cost him $25000 and then yearly inspections licences of $5000. Plus yearly training for any staff that would be doing refills. Good Bye propane.
Oh yes , he would have lost a considerable number of campsites, since residential units were not allowed in a certain radius of the refill location. Campsites, in the eyes of the inspector, are considered residential units

[theoldwizard1]

Not that this matters much to most RVes, but ...

What you get at your refill station is not likely 100% pure propane (C3H8). It is typically blend with butane (C4H10), which is a bit cheaper. The amount of butane typically depends on the time of year. One problem with butane is that its boiling point (the point where it turn from liquid to vapor) is around 34F (1C) while propane is about -44F (-42C).

In winter, if your tank contains a high concentration of butane (from a summer fill up) you may not have enough vapor to actually get it to burn !