Stupid question about tires

[Crowe]

So y'all can call me uneducated, stupid or whatever you like, but the 5th wheel we are looking at comes with nitrogen in the tires. Are there nitrogen pumps available? Can you mix it with air or just swap it over? Just seem weird to me.

[wanderingbob]

Remember it would be impossible to " Purge " a standard wheel . The bead will " break " allowing everything out ! So when ya let all the air out the tire is still complexly full of air that you then place nitrogen on top off !

[d3500ram]

monkey44 wrote:
Crowe's 'stupid question' about nitrogen seems pretty smart, after all, don't it??

It is a really is good question especially if one wants to get in the weeds about it.

Could member JoshuaJim’s reply of regular air being “fully” replace with nitrogen be calculated by incorporating the basic theorem of calculus? I have no idea what the equation would be. But as X approaches infinity (if X= time) we could see just how close to 100% that N can become.

Would it in fact be in the vicinity of 1,000 years?

[Dutch_12078]

The new tires on my Class A are nitrogen filled because that's all the truck shop that installed them uses. Their primary clientele is contract truck fleet operators and that's what they've asked for. I don't know if they charge anything extra for the nitrogen since I don't pay them for the work, but it may be built into their fleet pricing.

[Crowe]

LOL Monkey, LOL!

[monkey44]

Crowe's 'stupid question' about nitrogen seems pretty smart, after all, don't it??

[joshuajim]

The size of a nitrogen molecule is 300 picometers. The size of an oxygen molecule is 292 picometers. That means that oxygen is lost faster from your tires than nitrogen. So as you refill your tires with standard air, the nitrogen content will increase. If you refill your tires with standard air enough times, the nitrogen content will approach 100%.

Somewhere in the vicinity of 1000 years. :B

[QCMan]

Another thing to consider is that there is no way to pull a complete vacuum on tires to eliminate any air in them before filling with nitrogen. When there is a way to do this then I will believe that the tires are 100% nitrogen filled. Until that is possible, your "nitrogen filled" tires have one tire volume of atmospheric air in them before filling. It would still be a gimmick but the 100% nitrogen claim would at least be accurate.

[valhalla360]

ktmrfs wrote:

PartyOf Five wrote:
Our mechanic suggested nitrogen in the car tires if we did a rotation as winter approached. Apparentky it doesn't contract and expand as much in the cold and so is better in extreme temps.
That was already a few years ago- the fad seems to have died down.

NOT true. all gases follow boyles law PV=RT. since V (volume) is constant, P is strictly a function of T (temperature) where T is absolute temp, E.G. room temp is 273 or so Kelvin

Nitrogen molecules are slightly larger than Oxygen, so pressure drop from migration through the tire will be very slightly less.

Odd, while I check the pressure periodically, I haven't put any air in my tires over the last 6 months (when we replaced our tires). This is fairly typical to our experience over the years. Modern tires don't lose much air. When you factor in the cost and complication of finding nitrogen to top up, it's just not a big deal.

Theoretically, oxygen could oxidize the interior of the tire faster but are you really going to keep tires on the trailer 10yrs because you are guessing there might be less oxidization?

Not buying random truckers saying it's magical. I've seen then suggest some weird stuff but when you ask for evidence, it's not there.

[phillyg]

One hundred percent nitrogen in non-race vehicles is just another way to relieve you of your hard earned money. Just re-fill with air as needed.

[fj12ryder]

ktmrfs wrote:

PartyOf Five wrote:
Our mechanic suggested nitrogen in the car tires if we did a rotation as winter approached. Apparentky it doesn't contract and expand as much in the cold and so is better in extreme temps.
That was already a few years ago- the fad seems to have died down.

NOT true. all gases follow boyles law PV=RT. since V (volume) is constant, P is strictly a function of T (temperature) where T is absolute temp, E.G. room temp is 273 or so Kelvin

Nitrogen molecules are slightly larger than Oxygen, so pressure drop from migration through the tire will be very slightly less.

Personally I think the less change in pressure is caused by the dryer nitrogen compared to regular air. There should be no water vapor in the nitrogen fill, and water vapor will expand and contract more than gases without the water vapor. JMO anyway.

But basically unnecessary, just a way for some place to make a few extra pence.

[Crowe]

Thanks all! The manufacturer puts nitrogen in the tires. Was pretty certain it was a gimmick but needed a sanity check. I'm the first one to say there's no such thing as a stupid question but sometimes when I look at it on paper I think "Really???" LOL!

[JIMNLIN]

pitch wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:
I see several haulers swear by using nitrogen in the commercial trucks and trailers. Same size trucks and trailers we rv with.

If I went back to hauling I would use nitrogen all around but for just using a truck for pulling my rv trailer regular compressed air works fine.

Your choice.

You see several haulers that are not real intelligent. Did they purge their tires of existing atmospheric pressure air before the nitrogen? If not they have already eliminated the reason for nitrogen to begin with.

On the subject of why a LTL trucker would use nitrogen ......one of the reasons discussed was many of them were using nitrogen was for a more consistent tire pressure rolling from coast to coast and border to border from high desert heat temps to cold temps in a single day vs compressed air needing their constant pressure attention. In other words they found what worked better for their situation.

If your experience shows you don't need nitrogen thats fine but many in fact do. If you don't feel the need for such using the product or don't want the added complexity and cost, no one is going to think badly of you for your decision.

"We all decide for ourselves what's worth paying for or use and what isn't. No need to be rude about what others decide."

[pitch]

JIMNLIN wrote:
I see several haulers swear by using nitrogen in the commercial trucks and trailers. Same size trucks and trailers we rv with.

If I went back to hauling I would use nitrogen all around but for just using a truck for pulling my rv trailer regular compressed air works fine.

Your choice.

You see several haulers that are not real intelligent. Did they purge their tires of existing atmospheric pressure air before the nitrogen? If not they have already eliminated the reason for nitrogen to begin with.

[CapriRacer]

ktmrfs wrote:
...... All gases follow boyles law PV=RT. since V (volume) is constant, P is strictly a function of T (temperature) where T is absolute temp, E.G. room temp is 273 or so Kelvin. .....

X2!!

Nitrogen behaves exactly like air when it comes to pressure buildup in tires!

[dodge_guy]

Nitrogen does work. It will keep the pressure stable. But the use in auto/RV applications is not necessary. They have their place, which is in aviation and auto racing.

And yes, you can add regular compressed air to nitrogen filled tires. It’s like adding 87 octane to a tank that has 93.