Suspension Issue?

[bama5er]

I have a 2013 Sierra 38' fifth wheel. I have lost 3 tires due to complete tread separation in 4 years. I thought originally that I had a load rating (E) tire problem. However, after replacing all 5 tires with a F load rated tire I looked closer at the suspension. It seems I only have about an inch clearance from the top of the tire to the RV chassis. This seems very close. I have ALKO axles with Lippert Equi-Flex. My dealer says this is normal for my suspension. The issue is there is evidence (hole) where the tires have hit the bottom of the chassis. I would say this means that 1 inch is not enough clearance. If the tire running at 60-65 MPH hits a stationary object (RV chassis) that would cause the tread separation and a rough ride.

Question: Is there a standard minimum clearance for this?

[Housted]

At the very least I would put new springs and a True Track system on the 5er. True Track will give you 2" of lift/clearance immediately and is not expensive and will allow you to true the axels as needed.

True track installation

Housted

[mkirsch]

Rear axle can easily be bent from being nose-high, because it shifts the weight to the rear axle. If the axles are already borderline on their capacity, which appears to be the case from looking at the original pictures, it would not take much to overload and bend the rear axle.

Running nose-high is partially your fault, but the dealer should have tried to upsell you on a lift modification for the trailer so it would tow level. If he had done that to begin with, you could have avoided this problem entirely.

[myredracer]

With all that remedial work being done, I would've also considered adding shocks. They reduce vertical motion a lot and improve handling. Sure made a huge difference on our TT. I would have gone with a Dexter wet bolt kit & equalizers. If they used plastic bushings again, they can fail in just a couple thousand miles. Another thing I would have done is go up a size or two in axle/spring rating.

We had a previous TT that came from the factory with all 4 spring hangers bent to one side and the bottom flange of the I-beams was distorted at the hangers. Lippert said it was "within spec" but in the end after standing up to them, we got the whole dang TT replaced. When I looked around the dealer's lot, they had a whole bunch of other TTs with the same issue! I'm sure the dealer or factory did nothing about them.

Despite what they claim, Lippert churns out substandard design along with poor (no?) quality control. A big part of the problem is the lack of any industry standards from an org. such as ANSI or ASME. The RV manufacturers are also partly at fault.

I would have insisted that the trailer be taken to a reputable frame & axle shop. Besides get it done 100% correctly, it would have been in and out in no time. 5 months is absurd. We had a new TT and the dealer farmed out some some suspension work to a shop down the street who royally screwed it up even though I gave them a detailed drawing and specs. Ended up having to take it to a frame shop that I know and trust to fix it.

If you haven't yet, you should get to a scale so you know what your weights are.

[JBarca]

bama5er wrote:


2. Sierra tech came to dealer and found another problem. The rear axle was bent and he couldn't go any farther. He said either I hit something in the road or it was caused be the nose being to high. Anyone have their nose to high? He also said there was no bottoming of the wheels to the chassis. Don't believe that one from the evidence on the other side.

3. So the final solution was to completely replace the suspension. New hangers, axles, leaf springs, equilizer and Correctrack system for alignment. They also added a 2 inch square bar along the chassis which added 2 inches to the height. (was this also to prevent bottoming of the tires to the chassis)? They also added 3 more 2 inch bars across the width for stability.

This entire process took 5 months. Took it in mid September 2017 and got it back mid February 2018. So with the 2 inch bars and the Correctrack the RV is now 4 inches higher which helps some of the ride issue because of the nose being higher than the rear.

Thank you for reporting back. What an ordeal... 5 months??? the camper was built in 1 day...

I'm not agreeing with the tech on no bottoming out and the nose high bending the axle. Hitting something is possible or a bad axle to start with.

There was a goof from the word go from the factory. 1" clearance is just plain wrong and yours tires did bottom out, those pics are clearly evident of that.

If they added cross stabilizer bars at each hanger and the 2" tube on the bottom of the frame, someone knew this was messed up as those steps are done to beef up the suspension so frame and hanger distortion does not tear up the frame. It is good they did this, should of been on it from day one.

Can you post a few pics of the corrected setup? Curious on the arch of the spring, did they upgrade the spring size or only replace with the same size?

Glad for you this is now done and over. Was this covered under warranty?

Thanks again for reporting bac. Greatly appreciated.

John

[racer4]

Thanks for following up with the outcome.

I have wondered how damage to the Darco fabric (water barrier), where the tire wore through and plywood is showing, would be repaired. How did they repair that?

[fj12ryder]

Congratulations, sounds like you've made some progress in fixing your problem. Thanks for coming back with the results of your inquiries.

[bama5er]

Sorry for the delay in this posting. It has been quite an experience. I'll list the steps below:

1. Dealer found the tires were out of alignment due to wrong position of a hanger. Solution was to remove and re-hang the hanger in the correct position. The dealer decided to get someone from Sierra to reposition the hanger.

2. Sierra tech came to dealer and found another problem. The rear axle was bent and he couldn't go any farther. He said either I hit something in the road or it was caused be the nose being to high. Anyone have their nose to high? He also said there was no bottoming of the wheels to the chassis. Don't believe that one from the evidence on the other side.

3. So the final solution was to completely replace the suspension. New hangers, axles, leaf springs, equilizer and Correctrack system for alignment. They also added a 2 inch square bar along the chassis which added 2 inches to the height. (was this also to prevent bottoming of the tires to the chassis)? They also added 3 more 2 inch bars across the width for stability.

This entire process took 5 months. Took it in mid September 2017 and got it back mid February 2018. So with the 2 inch bars and the Correctrack the RV is now 4 inches higher which helps some of the ride issue because of the nose being higher than the rear.

I've only been able to take one short trip so far (500 - 600 mi total). Ride is greatly improved but still have some rough rides on bumps. Still would like to lower the nose a bit more. Maybe another 2-3 inches. Might need to lower the truck to accomplish this.

Thanks! bama5er

[bama5er]

Thanks for the replys! These tires are the same size as the original, 235/80R16. Brand is Gladiator trailer tires. As I said on my previous post the first blow-out was after about 1 year. I can't believe things wear out that quickly. Since the new trailers from this manufacturer has a minimum of 4 inches I tend to beleave this is poor design.

Thanks again! Mike

[blt2ski]

Shouldn
t the spring hangers be facing down vs what appears to be upwards?

Looks like you have two 6K spring packs. I would go with two 7K spring packs. And look at puting the spring hangers facing down ward.

As noted, the spring packs are shot. The back ones you can see have a frown in the middle, vs a smile arc ear to ear. Also been there done that, got new springs one size stronger, gain in height, no hitting above on bumps etc.

Marty

[Lynnmor]

Wanna fix it right? Cut off the spring hangers and weld square tubing to the bottom of the frame. Weld the new spring hangers to the tubing.

You could install new longer hangers, but that would not be as strong.

Any good heavy duty truck/trailer place can do this king of work.

The springs should be replaced but I don't think you will gain enough height doing just that. In the future, spray the springs with Fluid Film for lubrication and rust prevention.

[time2roll]

When you replace the springs go up to the next weight rating.
Any spring shop can set you up.

[fj12ryder]

Those springs need to be replaced, period.

[okiejoe]

Looks to me as if your springs are either not strong enough or have sagged, they both look almost flat, no arch, I'd get a new set with a little more arc than stock but those look shot.

[MFL]

Great pics, bad setup!! Those tires are obviously way too close to under side! Most figure 2.5"s minimum, 3 is better. If tires are not over sized, you do not have enough spring pack to properly support trailer. Springs look a little flat, but maybe just not strong enough from new. I may have missed it, but did you mention the trailer GVWR, and axle weight rating?

Jerry