Test Drive #2 Smoking Calipers? Help me decide: In Or Out

[CrusinSusan]

I've been in the process of buying a used consigned 1999 RoadTrek 190 Popular (Dodge Ram Van chassis), and I have to say first that the dealer has been very responsive to problems as they come up (and paying for them as they do come up): replacing filter on genny so it works right, paying my mechanic to fix the check engine light (was a speed sensor issue), applying rust retardant to the areas my mechanic pointed out (Florida vehicle; rust expected and was just bumper and hitch issues), replacing leaking dump pipe, replacing leaking differential plug (15 years causes shrinkage, and the oil would slosh back and leak out), and a few other items. I offered to pay for some body work on the driver's door, where rust required more than a coating of retardant, mostly because he was fixing all these other things and not changing the price on me. (I want a good relationship with, what I consider to be, an honest dealer, and I believe in being fair too.)

We had agreed on a price, and a price on my trade-in (all handshake-only), and I took it out for a last test-drive today; finding that the cruise control didn't work (this was the first highway drive, and so my only chance to check the cruise control), and he said he's have that fixed. There was some squeaking from wheel areas on even the slightest turns when first beginning to drive it, and he said he thought his mechanic has oiled (insert name of something I can't recall here)...and he'd have his guy check that again.

After about 15 miles (not all highway) I wanted to give it a good turn test, and did so via a tight U-turn which caused all kinds of wheel-squeaking noise and we bottomed out too (Not sure I can blame this on anything but the ridiculously low nature of RoadTreks though). Either way, the squeaking shouldn't be.

About 1/4 mile down the road, the van starts to pull to the left, and the right front passenger tire area is smoking. We pull over right away, and the dealer says it's the caliper, and explains it to me, that perhaps rust has stopped the calipers from being able to move (fyi: new brakes on this rig). We wait for it to cool down, and bring it to his down-the-street mechanic, and leave the rig with him, and take another car back to the dealership.

I was all set to buy this rig, but now I just don't know. The smoke and stink has got me questioning the deal. So I'm asking for your help/ideas. And, FWIW, I think this is an honest guy just as unfamiliar with this consignment as I am, so I'm not asking you to evaluate his integrity, but rather, the integrity of the vehicle itself with what little information I can offer.

Please feel free to ask whatever you want to help me come to a decision. PS: My mechanic, whom I trust, thought the vehicle was fine to buy, and I paid for that evaluation (yes, he got it up on the lift and I got under it with him).

So, if he replaces the two front calipers (rear are disks), do you think that...

heck, I don't even know what to ask. I'm leaning towards walking away from this deal, but I'd hate to.

I just dunno. Oh, and no maintenance records from previous owner. And the previous owner covered the check engine light with black tape because the light bothered him (Oy vey).

You might say: Susan!? Why are you still with this deal at all? Well, the rig (always wanted one...perfect for me), and the price is not to be beat, AND the dealer is indeed addressing everything that comes up.

[Harvey51]

I like the finger in the fluid reservoir test! Thanks for that. It would be the perfect check to see if any brake parts were replaced in the last couple of years (which would certainly include bleeding lines and wiping out the reservoir).

I have a 1992 GM 2500 van which I bought new. Never changed any brake parts and the fluid got very dark, black stuff in the reservoir. I tried flushing it yesterday and the proportioning valve (never heard of it before) locked out the rear brakes. Lucked out, after playing with it all day I managed to reset it. That van has had three crises in the last year - heater core, water pump/alternator/idler bearings and now brakes. I suppose it would have cost $2000 if I hadn't had mechanic friends. It only went a few hundred km in the year. it still needs new tires. What next? I wouldn't trust it for a long trip.

Susan, I think you made a wise choice. Your mention of everyday use AND a trip to Alaska reminds me of a friend who had a minivan for everyday use and also enjoyed a good camping trip to Alaska with it. It happens that a standard single bed fits into a Dodge Caravan (not even a Grande one). He made wire frame screens to put in the window openings for warm nights. An advantage of the vehicle not looking like an RV was that he could overnight free in towns, at a hospital parking lot or whatever.

[mchero]

Sticking brake calipers have nothing to do with brake fluid and everythign to do with the rails they slide on.

My 93 Pace Arrow is on an Oshkosh Chassis and the front calipers WILL stick if left unused for an extended period of time. First drive of the season I will do short stops in both forward & reverse. I then take her out on the road for a short 1 - 2 mile drive & feel for a tight pedal when stopping.

If they do get stuck I can pull the calipers and clean/lube the rails with a LIGHT coat of hi-temp lubricant, e.g. exhaust brake lube.

[Roman_Duck]

ok I've read this post and a vehicle that has sat for a while will have sticky brakes/cailbers. It could have moisture in the brake fluid. But having had this problem with more than my fair share, I've found out if your brakes are heating up it's most likely due to bad brake hoses.The brake hose is made of a double wall. otherwise a hose within the hose.
What happens is the inner wall delaminates from outer and collapses. When you apply the brakes you force brake fluid thru the collapsed hose and it activates the caliber/wheel cilynder. When you release the brake pedal,the fluid is no longer under pressure and it relaxes the caliber/ wheel cilynder. When the hose is defective the fluid that's between the hose and caliber/cilynder gets trap by the collapse hose and keeps pressure against the caliber. After a short period of time the fluid that is trap will bleed back thru the bad hose and the brake relaxes and frees up. A quick way to see if this is the problem is apply the brakes firmly with the brake/ wheel in question jacked up in the air, and try to spin the wheel, it will be locked due to the fluid,... take a wrench and loosen the bleeder valve just a crack, the fluid will spit out and your wheel should spin free, if the wheel is still stuck then you know its a caliber and not a hose . I understand that you passed on this B, but this is a common issue with any vehicle that has hydraulic brakes

[CrusinSusan]

Bill....gotta disagree with you on Bs in Florida. IMO, there's no cheaper place to buy them. I don't think there's anywhere else in the country to get a '99 RoadTrek for under $10k

Plus, it was to be my ONLY vehicle. A C just won't do as a daily driver for me.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

subcamper wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Corrosion seizing a disc brake caliper is SERIOUS. Rubber boots over the caliper piston are supped to SEAL the piston and the bore from moisture that can cause corrosion and seizing.

In all of the stuck-caliper situations my vehicles had, the cause was not a stuck piston but corroded slide bolts. Moisture got past the seal boots and corroded the bolt (and in one case the bore in the caliper). These situations are more common than a stuck piston and are far less serious. Usually I fixed them with a little sandpaper or a new bolt and some grease.


Steve

Thanks for the head's up Steve. That's why I recommended sampling the brake fluid at all four corners and inspecting the master cylinder. I have seen far too many cases of moisture contamination to dismiss its probability. This checking for moisture may be one of the more overlooked inspection points in automobile ownership. A thorough flushing of the brake system every three years can extend hydraulic parts life tremendously.

[overbrook]

CrusinSusan wrote:
I canceled the deal. Seriously bummed, but it's the right thing to do, even at $9900.

Here in Florida, used Class B motorhomes go for crazy high prices, especially to first time RV buyers who think they will be easier to drive and get better fuel mileage.

In most cases, and older Class B will get 12-13mpg, will have a very small fridge, almost no storage, and will have minimal sleeping accomodations.

But if you look at shorty Class C's, you can get a whole lot more for your money. Newer, with fewer miles, more room inside, a large fridge and freezer, and a real bathroom. You do lose about 2 mpg compared to a B, but you get a lot more room inside.

You mentioned the B you looked at was priced at $9,900. Here's an example of what you can for about the same price in a shorty C.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/rvs/3926138731.html

I found several in this price range in the Ft Myers, Tampa area Craigslist . . .

Bill

[CrusinSusan]

Well, I thank you all very much. I canceled the deal. Seriously bummed, but it's the right thing to do, even at $9900. I just can't afford a toy that will cost me, and be a replacement for my car.

Wonderful dealer though: Brian at Daytona RVs in Port Orange; so if you're looking in the area, talk to him. Good man, that. Tell him Susan sent ya.

[rfuerst911sc]

Buy the best quality rig you can afford, in my opinion this is not it. You already stated the rig was not fun to drive on the highway, correct me if I'm wrong but there is a fair amount of highway between Florida and Alaska !!!

[j-d]

Can you get the detailed Make/Model/Year information from Dodge's door post sticker?

I started out thinking this unit has Front Disk and Rear Drum brakes. The lookups I did on Autozone.com bore that out. I looked at 1998 3/4-ton and 1999 1-ton.

Lots of times the '99 coach will be on a '98 chassis.

Every hydraulic brake system has Master Cylinder and a number of steel brake lines.

Disk brakes have Caliper, Pads (that grip the sides of the disk to stop), Caliper Slide Hardware and a Flex Hose to each brake.

Drum brakes have Wheel Cylinder, Shoes (that expand INSIDE the drum), Hardware Kit including Self Adjuster, and a Flex Hose to the Axle since the Cylinders connect to steel lines.

There's also a Proportioning Valve in Front Disk/Rear Drum systems.

On a car with Rear Drum Brakes, servicing is easy. If it's a vehicle with a Truck-Type rear axle, servicing can get messy and laborious.

[subcamper]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Corrosion seizing a disc brake caliper is SERIOUS. Rubber boots over the caliper piston are supped to SEAL the piston and the bore from moisture that can cause corrosion and seizing.

In all of the stuck-caliper situations my vehicles had, the cause was not a stuck piston but corroded slide bolts. Moisture got past the seal boots and corroded the bolt (and in one case the bore in the caliper). These situations are more common than a stuck piston and are far less serious. Usually I fixed them with a little sandpaper or a new bolt and some grease.


Steve

[pronstar]

I would look elsewhere.
Just look at all of the problems that have arisen before you've even bought it.

[CrusinSusan]

He didn't say that. All I am sure of is that he looked at the rear wheels, and said they were disc.

Never said anything about the front. I was being specific because *I* don't know what I'm talking about. And I guess my saying that he said the rear brakes were disc, brought about the confusion here.

I just wanted to be clear, and in doing so, confused many here. My bad.

Here's what happened: We were sitting on the side of the road while the brakes cooled, and he went to the rear of the vehicle, and said: Yeah, they're discs, as he was trying to figure things out.

My specificity (due to being a careful clueless person on these matters) has confused many.

[Bird_Freak]

All my years as a mechanic I have Never seen anything with drum front and rear disc brakes! Somebody has no idea what they are telling you.

[CrusinSusan]

Ack. I just don't know.