Payload vs Tow rating?

[harmanrk]

Okay, I'm new, so be gentle.

I see a lot of posts discussing the payload of the truck to be used as a tow vehicle, but very few discussing the tow ratings, so I have to ask, why?

I realize that the payload is the weight you can put in/on the tow vehicle, beyond the curb weigh, but am I missing something in how that comes into play? Passengers, cargo in the cab or bed, Hitch Weight/ Pin Weight you want to keep the total below the payload. I do realize that four people at 150 each (Some of us are above that, but the kids tend to be lighter) is 600, another 600 in tounge weight is not beyond reason, bringing you to 1200, before cargo. 1500 pound payload leaves just 300 for gear, if you max out the tow vehicle, but is that the extent of it?

[blt2ski]

45Ricochet wrote:
You know Elk, your relatively new here but I won't give you any more sh*t :W I'll just wait for the others.
Come on, GCWR is the most important figure :E Go tell my truck that....

I must have been typiong while you were typing......

GCWR is NOT the most important. My old truck did just fine towing a 12K trailer, with a 12K gcwr mind you! In fact, I would put it up against thesame truck with the auto that was rated at 14K lbs. I'd slaughter it in more ways than one! In fact, in some cases, I would put it up against my dmax, the dmax would lose! other possible testsperformance specs, the dmax would win.

marty

[blt2ski]

Actually, total payload INCLUDES the passengers. Now camper or bed load, is total payload less # of seatbelts time 154 lbs per!

My truck has a door sticker of 4100, camper load is 3200. My C2500, has a door sticker payload of 3800, camper load of 3350!

GCWR on the other hand, is not a legal term, and Weight cops on the road will nto ticket you for being over or under this amount. Also having been pulled over by a few of them, taken a class or 3 or 4 from them, the axel and gvwr sticker on the side of the door is also not a legal number one has to follow. Most only care what your paid for license/registration says. So my C2500 since I have an 8000 lbs plate, that is ALL I am good too! If I load up to the door sticker gvwr of 8600, get pulled over, I am overwt by 600 some lbs! My dully on theother hand, has a registration plate of 14K lbs, which is over the door sticker gvwr and the sum of the door sticker axel ratings. I am legal to 14K lbs. the door sticker at least in wa st, means squat!

At the end of the day, to me, you still need the proper payload to tow a trailer equal to what ever % HW you need, along with passengers etc. FOr some of us, we will need a Crew cab with 3000 lbs of payload, and will use ALL 3000 lbs of payload while towing a 6500 lbs trailer as I did with my family of 6 that totals 1200 or so lbs when my kids were adult sized teens! We would have typical crew cab 15 series truck at gvwr before loading a trailer. So for me any how. those trucks have ZERO, NADA, NO tow rating ability!

Marty

[45Ricochet]

You know Elk, your relatively new here but I won't give you any more sh*t :W I'll just wait for the others.
Come on, GCWR is the most important figure :E Go tell my truck that....

[elkhornsun]

The most important number is that for the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) as that is the maximum amount of weight that the tow vehicle can handle and includes everything (passengers, fuel, water, gear, trailer). It is based on the cabilities of the vehicle's engine, transmission and drive train, frame, suspension, wheels, tires, and other components.

The tow rating is how much the vehicle can pull depending upon whether it is a conventional trailer or a 5th-wheel trailer. Subract at least 1000 lbs. from this rating to determine the maximum dry weight for the trailer you plan to buy.

Payload is a fungible number as it includes an estimated number of passengers. If the truck has a crew cab and seats 6 people then the manufacturers calculate a passenger load of 900 lbs. and subtract that from the payload for the truck. It is why you will see the highest payload ratings for trucks with regular cabs.

The payload number provided by the manufacturer is calculated based on how the truck is equiped when it leaves the factory and takes into account the weakest link. Invariably the weakest link is the load capacity of the rear tires and these can be changed as can overload springs be added to the rear axle and heavier duty shocks and other suspension items like air bags and anti-sway bars). The rear axles on all the heavy duty (3/4 and 1-ton) trucks have a load rating of 8900 lbs. or more and so the payload is limited not by the rear axle and the wheel bearings but by the tires.

It is confusing but Ford and GM and Ram all provide towing guides for their vehicles and they are very well written and a good place to start. Regardless of what you buy and what package options it comes with from the factory you will need to add more items to get it ready for towing.

[bimbert84]

harmanrk wrote:

Passengers, cargo in the cab or bed, Hitch Weight/ Pin Weight you want to keep the total below the payload. I do realize that four people at 150 each (Some of us are above that, but the kids tend to be lighter) is 600, another 600 in tounge weight is not beyond reason, bringing you to 1200, before cargo. 1500 pound payload leaves just 300 for gear, if you max out the tow vehicle, but is that the extent of it?

You have it right, although 600# of tongue weight would be a very light trailer. A properly loaded travel trailer will have 12-15% of its total weight on the tongue.

You'll hear more about payload capacity because that's what you'll usually run out of first. A 6000# trailer should have about 900# of tongue weight. And don't forget the weight of the hitch itself. And fuel. And the toolbox. And firewood. It adds up fast.

-- Rob

[BenK]

fla-gypsy wrote:

45Ricochet wrote:
Three type of people out there OP.

1. Folks who follow manufactures GVWR. Manufactures are pretty dumb folks though as they know nothing about the truck they engineered :B

2. Folks who run by the GAWR or axle rating. Heck a 9350 rated axle can always hold that much weight with 6k rated tires :E

3. Then there are those who just hitch up and go. I'm sure the Yugo will be just fine honey.

Life is choices.

Let me add 1A; Those of us who think the manufacturer actually did the engineering and therefore NONE of the many "maximum ratings" should ever be exceeded!

This type never has to rationalize away anything in their mind or to anyone else concerning whether a maximum allowable rating was established for safety reasons, or warranty reasons, or performance reasons, or liability reasons, or if the tires or the axle is the limiting factor, no wait, maybe it's the mythical "missing" leaf spring? Is it possible that the manufacturer who established the "Not to exceed" rating really meant it, or is it just a recommendation? Apologies to the OP for the hijack rant but your question has already been answered many times very accurately by previous posters.

Welcome to the forum !

First, decide whether you believe in the ratings (specifications, limits, etc)
or not

If not, then do whatever you wish. It is a free country till you intrude into
others likewise freedoms. Then our society limits your freedoms in
many ways. Know that you have taken the OEM off the warranty hook
if still in warranty and off the liability hook. On that, note that
'recommended' is a defined legal term and if a driver should ignore
that 'recommendation', that too takes the OEM off the hook...


If yes, then read and ask question to learn how the system works. Yes, a system
and that all of the various components, sub assemblies, and systems work in
concert with *EACH OTHER*

There is fine print in all OEM ratings. The fine print establishes
and/or modifies the basis used to derive those ratings. This is VERY
important, as most folks take any single rating as an absolute, and
lost to them is that it is only a component in a ratings system
Or that there is fine print that modifies the conditions on which
that rating is based, or derived from

Then learn or already know what the definition of 'rating' is, then that
is part of your yes/no decision on ratings. Many seemly do NOT truly
understand the definition of rating.

Notice that the acronyms all have an 'R' in them. GVWR, GAWR, MTWR,
GCWR, etc.

Payload rating is what any vehicle is rated to carry (weight to pavement)

Tow rating is what any vehicle is rated to tow...reference that fine
print comment above

Like that Toyota commercial that has a pickup 'towing' the Space Shuttle
that weights hundreds of thousand of pounds. That is towing on a good
day and am sure that Tundra is NOT rated to tow that amount.

There will be tons of the 'sure you can', etc, but the only person
responsible for the setup is the driver. Like your spouse driving
while you rest. Many come here only looking for that 'sure you can'
and they will get many...

Here is a diagram made up from another members diagram showing how
the whole ratings system works in concert. Remember the old axiom
of a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...in this case the
weakest or limiting 'rating'...

howmuchcanitow

[noteven]

"You need a bigger truck :)" 🙂 🙂 it's the cure for everything: bigger

someone had to say it, gently...

Try to avoid exceeding load ratings: eg max tire load ratings, max axle load ratings, max hitch load ratings.

Tow ratings take into account vehicle performance, cooling capability, as well as safety and are somewhat subjective.

Tag or bumper towed trailers require a minimum of 10% of their weight on the tow ball to handle properly, so eventually you arrive at the tow vehicle's hitch rating. 1200lbs on the hitch = 12,000lbs trailer gross weight.

Old school rule of thumb is a 5th wheel coupled trailer can weigh 2x the pickup's bumper tow trailer capacity.

[fla-gypsy]

45Ricochet wrote:
Three type of people out there OP.

1. Folks who follow manufactures GVWR. Manufactures are pretty dumb folks though as they know nothing about the truck they engineered :B

2. Folks who run by the GAWR or axle rating. Heck a 9350 rated axle can always hold that much weight with 6k rated tires :E

3. Then there are those who just hitch up and go. I'm sure the Yugo will be just fine honey.

Life is choices.

Let me add 1A; Those of us who think the manufacturer actually did the engineering and therefore NONE of the many "maximum ratings" should ever be exceeded!

This type never has to rationalize away anything in their mind or to anyone else concerning whether a maximum allowable rating was established for safety reasons, or warranty reasons, or performance reasons, or liability reasons, or if the tires or the axle is the limiting factor, no wait, maybe it's the mythical "missing" leaf spring? Is it possible that the manufacturer who established the "Not to exceed" rating really meant it, or is it just a recommendation? Apologies to the OP for the hijack rant but your question has already been answered many times very accurately by previous posters.

[4x4ord]

I try to stay within the tire ratings of my truck. Of next importace would be axle rating. I see little point in a gvwr and pay no attention to my truck's gcvwr. At times my truck is used to haul a 32000 lb gooseneck trailer which it handles fairly well on the prairies - The exhaust brake might be too weak to safely pull that kind of weight on the mountian freeways. Some hills off the interstate might make the truck inadequate to handle the 15500 lb trailer it is rated for. To a large extent I view it as the truck needs to be able to handle the weight put on it and the trailer needs to handle its load - and these numbers will vary depending on the roads you intend to travel.

[harmanrk]

45Ricochet wrote:
Three type of people out there OP.

1. Folks who follow manufactures GVWR. Manufactures are pretty dumb folks though as they know nothing about the truck they engineered :B

2. Folks who run by the GAWR or axle rating. Heck a 9350 rated axle can always hold that much weight with 6k rated tires :E

3. Then there are those who just hitch up and go. I'm sure the Yugo will be just fine honey.

Life is choices.

I'll go with Number 3, for 800 Alex. 😛

And thank you for those who have taken the time break this down

[blt2ski]

Issue as Dougie pointed out, payload can be gone before you even hook up a trailer. If the rig is at gvw before hooking up a trailer, you have NO trailer capacity! My family of 6 was a bit heavier than dougie, when my 4 kids were adult size teens, we pushed teh scales into the 1200 lb range. Pretty much putting his burb at gvwr BEFORE adding the 600-700 lbs of hw of our trailer. Not to mention the two alaskan malamutes and crates in the bed. Sometimes a canoe, 3500wt generator, 6 bikes, gear for the canoe. It was not uncommon for my CC K3500 to be in the 9-9500 lb range, and it weighed 6600 empty! so 3000 lbs added to my truck, and I was only pulling a 6500lb trailer with up to about 750 lbs of hw depending how it was loaded for what type of trip etc!

Here is a pic of my 88 ext cab, but had the same trailer behind a 96 CC! you can see my sons at age 6 or so, the dog crates, did not have teh canoe, but add a rack, tool box etc......adds a few lbs!



Reality is, if you talk tow capacity, you need to discuss payload! as you can not have one, with out the other! Kinda like HP and torque. For our motors, you can not go forward with out both!

marty

[45Ricochet]

Three type of people out there OP.

1. Folks who follow manufactures GVWR. Manufactures are pretty dumb folks though as they know nothing about the truck they engineered :B

2. Folks who run by the GAWR or axle rating. Heck a 9350 rated axle can always hold that much weight with 6k rated tires :E

3. Then there are those who just hitch up and go. I'm sure the Yugo will be just fine honey.

Life is choices.

[sele]

part of the reason i dont have a picture of my truck and f'ver on here we like and enjoy our setup. there is great information here sometimes it just is better to be guarded.

jerem0621 wrote:
As an online community of people we are doing something wrong when a new persons first line is

"Okay, I'm new, so be gentle"

[skipnchar]

Maximum trailer weight your truck is rated to tow is a warranty issue. It defines the weight that the manufacturer is willing to guarantee it will tow and THEY pay for problems that may occur during the warranty period. Payload on the other hand is a SAFETY issue. That's why the infomation about it is found on the DOT safety plate that is required to be in the door post of every vehicle sold. Other safety related issues are the Axle weight ratings and the GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. Other WARRANTY issues are GCVWR (gross combined weight rating).
Good luck / Skip