Towing Capability Question

[Ridgerunner29]

It appears that a Chevy 1500 5.3 has a higher towing capability than a Chevy 2500 6.0. Chevy site says a 1500 CC std box 5.3 3.73 4X4 will tow 11700 lbs. 2500HD CC std box 6.0 3.73 4X4 will tow 9400 lbs. Am I reading the data wrong? Is there any engineering explanation for these towing specs that seem to defy logic? Or is this just one of the marketing strategies for the 150 / 1500 market.

I thought the society of auto engineers had come up with a method for establishing standards for tow ratings for light trucks. It looks like the sales side of the company is not listening to the engineering side of the company. Or maybe I'm missing something that I should be able to clearly see.

[kw_00]

Payload will always be the issue. Just got back from camping or glamping at Disney. Quick trip for us I only live a little over an hour north, anyway saw a lot of campers being pulled by 1/2 ton trucks. Spoke pto our camping neighbor, he had a new tundra with the 5.7... Good truck, however he spent an extra grand at the rv shop and had overload springs installed with different shocks. His fiver was over 8000 dry, gvwr was around 10500 I believe. I told him that the improvement on his truck would not increase gvwr like the installer had advised him. Regardless we had a good conversation about trucks. I have also been told by a buddy of mine that his new gmc 1500 will out tow mine... Well at least on paper, same thing as above my truck is rated at 9800 and his is much higher... I just laughed and explained the issue with payload..... Well after a min it came clear that it would be an issue for him.. All because his truck had a rating of 11000, payload was only I beleive in the 1700 range. So add fuel and passengers and vola.. That big payload drops quickly and so does the trailer wieght, anyway I could not understand the numbers either when the manufacture claimed the 1/2 ton will pull more then the 3/4 ton. I really don't lose sleep over it, I have a stable platform and prefer the 3/4 ton over the 1/2 ton regardless. Even if I would downgrade campers in the future, I like the stoutness of the 3/4 ton, and yes I had the chance to ride in the new 1/2 ton deal while pulling a smaller goosneck. I am not convinced that the stability... via seat in the pants feeling is not close to the 3/4 ton offerings.

[blt2ski]

Ridgerunner29 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Any one recall the days that GM put 350 gas motors in reg cab twucks.....ie reg cabs were the only thing out there excepting a very few and far between crew cab. ie about 1980 or so......a BB 454 4 bbl put out a whopping 195hp, and maybe at best 330 lb ft of torque! oh baby! powerful motor it was! The std motor was a 292 I 6 with 105hp in the 25-65 series trucks.....a 250 I6 in the 1500's.......a 350 2bbl put out maybe 150 hp and 250 lb ft of torque, and the 305 was around 130 and 200 lb ft of torque.......

The Lowest HP motors in GM;s fleet now put out what, 200 hp, and probably over 200 lb ft of torque! the best is the dmax at 400/800 or so! Heck, an intro sb8 has more hp etc than a BB 454 of yor! Pulling power is NOT an issue to day folks! Payload was back then, as it is today.....

SO whomever mentioned earlier "if you have the payload for the people, cargo and hitch wt, you will pull a trailer fine"

Oh yeah, the GCWR for a 350 back then with 4.10;s was 13500. A half ton weighed about 4500 lbs, with an 8500 max trailer tow. A 2500 was around 5K lbs, tow rating 8000 lbs, a dually around 6000 lbs, and a whopping 7500 lbs tow rating. Happened just as the OP states, a half ton can tow more than a 1 ton! Been going on for many many many years with the way manfuactures rate LDT trucks.

Marty

Thank you for the history. I am simple enough to have thought these tow capacity inconsistencies is a recent problem with the pickup truck industry.

Back in 81 when I bought my first truck, the gcwr for a 292 I6 was 8500 lbs, yet it was ONLY put in rigs with gvwr's of 8600+ lbs. So if you have a 2500 as I bought, you had a -100 lbs tow rating per the gcwr. Yet that rig would pull/move 12K lbs up a 20+% grade. Meanwhile an 89 1 ton I had, with a 16K gcwr COULD NOT pull/move 12K lbs up a 20+% grade. But did go 20 some odd mph faster on a freeway grade than the 292 could. So you got to with in half a mile of destination, faster with the BB, but could not get up the driveway to the jobsite because of the grade. The 292 meanwhile, got to with in the last half mile slower time wise, but COULD go up the 20% grade to the jobsite! so, at the end of the day, which truck do you want?

The new sae specs only give you a 12% grade tested. A moderately steep county road at least around here. City streets in Seattle are in the mid 20% range. If one is not a strict RV user, and a contractor with there truck, a 30% grade at least around here is the min grade one wants to pull. The min speed is 35 mph. In my state, that is 5 mph BELOW the min speed on an interstate.

Reality is, even the SAE can not come up with specs that fit the needs of some of us in the real world of contruction use. RV, yeah, overall it works......But even then, the ratings are for a 60 or 80 sq ft trailer, most RV trailers are 90-120 depending upon std TT to front bedroom slide 5w's.

As such, I go thru some of the hoops that one goes thru when specing an MDT/HDT rig. those trucks have gcwr ratings base on on the chassis, then you spec the drive train to the final useage. A logging truck will be speced different than a box trailer otr rig, Even tho both will be at 80K lbs or so. A car hauler will be speced even different yet. I've seen a moving van that came from New orleans at 60 mph on all the interstates, yet on one of the foot hills here in Seattle, it literally stalled out on a 20% grade, had the power, but NOT the gears to go up the hill the last 1/4 mile to the house. Kinda funny actually.

I have NEVER seen trailer tow ratings for LDT's that make sense in ALL the years buying and using LDTs as tow rigs for my landscape biz, or pulling the RV that my family of 6 needed. In fact, most of the rigs that I was over gcwr vs under were actually the better tow rigs, ie the emanuals that were derated over the auto's. As the manuals had a lower over all gear ratio, so they went up the hills, the autos stalled out.

Marty

[Ridgerunner29]

blt2ski wrote:
Any one recall the days that GM put 350 gas motors in reg cab twucks.....ie reg cabs were the only thing out there excepting a very few and far between crew cab. ie about 1980 or so......a BB 454 4 bbl put out a whopping 195hp, and maybe at best 330 lb ft of torque! oh baby! powerful motor it was! The std motor was a 292 I 6 with 105hp in the 25-65 series trucks.....a 250 I6 in the 1500's.......a 350 2bbl put out maybe 150 hp and 250 lb ft of torque, and the 305 was around 130 and 200 lb ft of torque.......

The Lowest HP motors in GM;s fleet now put out what, 200 hp, and probably over 200 lb ft of torque! the best is the dmax at 400/800 or so! Heck, an intro sb8 has more hp etc than a BB 454 of yor! Pulling power is NOT an issue to day folks! Payload was back then, as it is today.....

SO whomever mentioned earlier "if you have the payload for the people, cargo and hitch wt, you will pull a trailer fine"

Oh yeah, the GCWR for a 350 back then with 4.10;s was 13500. A half ton weighed about 4500 lbs, with an 8500 max trailer tow. A 2500 was around 5K lbs, tow rating 8000 lbs, a dually around 6000 lbs, and a whopping 7500 lbs tow rating. Happened just as the OP states, a half ton can tow more than a 1 ton! Been going on for many many many years with the way manfuactures rate LDT trucks.

Marty

Thank you for the history. I am simple enough to have thought these tow capacity inconsistencies is a recent problem with the pickup truck industry.

[blt2ski]

Any one recall the days that GM put 350 gas motors in reg cab twucks.....ie reg cabs were the only thing out there excepting a very few and far between crew cab. ie about 1980 or so......a BB 454 4 bbl put out a whopping 195hp, and maybe at best 330 lb ft of torque! oh baby! powerful motor it was! The std motor was a 292 I 6 with 105hp in the 25-65 series trucks.....a 250 I6 in the 1500's.......a 350 2bbl put out maybe 150 hp and 250 lb ft of torque, and the 305 was around 130 and 200 lb ft of torque.......

The Lowest HP motors in GM;s fleet now put out what, 200 hp, and probably over 200 lb ft of torque! the best is the dmax at 400/800 or so! Heck, an intro sb8 has more hp etc than a BB 454 of yor! Pulling power is NOT an issue to day folks! Payload was back then, as it is today.....

SO whomever mentioned earlier "if you have the payload for the people, cargo and hitch wt, you will pull a trailer fine"

Oh yeah, the GCWR for a 350 back then with 4.10;s was 13500. A half ton weighed about 4500 lbs, with an 8500 max trailer tow. A 2500 was around 5K lbs, tow rating 8000 lbs, a dually around 6000 lbs, and a whopping 7500 lbs tow rating. Happened just as the OP states, a half ton can tow more than a 1 ton! Been going on for many many many years with the way manfuactures rate LDT trucks.

Marty

[ChooChooMan74]

GM Sprinkles magic towing dust on the 1500. That is how it tows that much.

[JIMNLIN]

desert captain wrote:
LMAO! As I said "Good luck" with that. You have a trailer that is twice the weight of your half ton truck, with half ton brakes, suspension, shocks etc. Yes, the newer half tons are beefier than the old ones, that is not news.

Lets see now the one ton DRW GM weighs in the 7.5k-8k bracket and has a 30000 lb tow rating which is almost 4 times the weight of the truck.

But the 1/2 ton at 5500-5800 lbs can't handle a 10k trailer that is almost 1 1/2 times its weight.
Funny math. Now I understand where your comming from. :B :R

[Leroy2u]

JIMNLIN wrote:

The same truck with a 4.10 rear axle can tow 13,000 lbs. A diesel with a 3.73 rear axle is also rated for 13,000 lbs.

13000 lbs is the most the class hitch that GM uses can tow. Has nothing to do with a particular trucks max tow rating.

Use this http://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/ for the latest GM tech specs.
It has a weights calculator and gives you the trucks actual weight as shipped with all its options.

Close but not accurate, 18000k if you have a dually....;)

[The_Texan]

You have to understand that some on this forum would not tow a small pop up with anything but a 1 ton DRW and chastises anyone who thinks different than them. Then there are the growing numbers that understand the capabilities of the present ½ ton trucks and what they are capable of IF properly equipped. The statement by one here that ALL ½t trucks have a 1500# or lower payload is pure BS, as MANY have a payload of 2000# and greater, some over 3000#.

[Farmerkev]

Not all things towable have tongue weight, a grain wagon comes to mind.
On the 2014 GMC max tow the rear axel is increased to 9.76", heavier springs with a higher RGAWR than standard. There are also cooling enhancements and integrated brake.
No, it isn't going to handle a big fifth wheel but it will handle a decent sized trailer or smaller fiver.

[bmanning]

The_Painting_Teacher wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

dahkota wrote:
2500HD CC std box 6.0 3.73 4X4 will tow 9400 lbs. - 2013 model
1500 CC std box 5.3 3.73 4X4 will tow 11700 lbs. - 2014 model

Check the payloads for both. The 1500 will not, repeat not, tow 11,700#. You will exceed its payload long before you get anywhere near 11,700. :C

Payload and tow capacity are two separate issues. Camp on!

Depends upon whom you ask, LOL. Hitch weight has to be factored in just as you'd factor in putting a 600lb weight in the bed. If I have a truck with 1500lb payload capacity and I put 500lb of pressure on the hitch, I now have 1000lb of payload capacity remaining.

If my truck runs out of payload without being able to handle the tongue weight, my payload limit has superceded my tow rating. I hope that made sense.

Separate but related is how I think of it.

Some RV'ers choose to ignore GVWR (which determines payload) which on rv.net isn't a can of worms, it's a dumpster full of nightcrawlers. I think of GVWR as a great guideline to stay within, but would I buy a different truck if I went a little bit over? Some would, I would not. Would I buy a different truck if I blew the GVWR out of the water? Yes.

[The_Painting_Te]

Desert Captain wrote:

dahkota wrote:
2500HD CC std box 6.0 3.73 4X4 will tow 9400 lbs. - 2013 model
1500 CC std box 5.3 3.73 4X4 will tow 11700 lbs. - 2014 model

Check the payloads for both. The 1500 will not, repeat not, tow 11,700#. You will exceed its payload long before you get anywhere near 11,700. :C

Payload and tow capacity are two separate issues. Camp on!

[45Ricochet]

45Ricochet wrote:


J2807

[45Ricochet]

LOL
Hey the Tundra towed the space shuttle :W like 3 MPH :B
J2807 would surely knock down that 11k number the ad boys came up with.

[Desert_Captain]

JIMNLIN wrote:

desert captain wrote:
Hello... you do know this is an RV site, right? Travel trailers, fifth wheels, that sort of thing. Now if you just want to argue you might (maybe), be able to get that 1500 to pull a flat bed trailer with 10,000# on it but good luck controlling it. The 1500 is a half ton with limited payload, probably well under 1500#. just because you "can" do something does not mean it is a good idea.

Hello .. yeah I've towed RVs since the '60 and have been a RV.net member since '03. So I understand towing issues and am aware this is a RV forum. If you read my reply above closely I acknowledged that fact about RV folks.

Along with my 5er I pull other trailers also with my trucks. A couple of trailers to make some side money with. I see other members mention they have different trailers also

Luck has nothing to do with the wifes 1500 controlling the 10k bumper pull or even the 12k GN trailer.

Just because you may not have the necessary experience or have (or had) the right 1/2 ton truck towing 11k weights doesn't mean its a bad idea.

LMAO! :B As I said "Good luck" with that. You have a trailer that is twice the weight of your half ton truck, with half ton brakes, suspension, shocks etc. Yes, the newer half tons are beefier than the old ones, that is not news.

I suspect there are number of reasons you have several trucks (a couple of heavy load trailers comes to mind), it must be nice but using a half ton to pull 11K# when you have a capable 3/4 and a one ton seems odd. :h Oh well I guess it is mostly flat in Oklahoma. The OP was questioning the ambiguity in the tow ratings and frankly I don't blame him. His 25' airstream is probably something north of 7K# and at the upper end of most half tons.

I missed the quoted 1883# payload (my bad), which is very unusual for a half ton 4X4 CC, most of them come in well under 1500# and as such they run out of payload long before getting anywhere near 11,000# which was my original point.
:C