Why all the hate on 1/2 ton tvs

[Dreenn]

Like the title says I have read many posts that basically suggest that towing a 30ish foot Tt with a 1/2 ton truck is wrong and your going to Indanger your family and anyone around you on the road that said I have a few questions

I just bought a 30foot Tt dry weight is 5200 loaded is 7500 I believe by the manufacture sticker I am towing it with a 2014 gmc 1500.

I looked up max tow rating on my gmc in the manual and used my window sticker for refers to what was equipped it said max was 9600 pounds now looking at my door sticker I don't see 9600 pounds anywhere on it am I missing something?? Or is my truck rated to tow a lot less then what the manual says

Sorry for the poor grammar typing on my cell phone

[mb1776]

These weight discussions are exhausting...being a newbie the issue of weight is very confusing. The manufacture tells you one thing to sell the truck. The RV dealer tells you another to sell the trailer. The only absolutes in this discussion seem to be 1) your tv has a weight limit developed with safety in mind. 2) your TT also has a weight limit so that it can be operated safely. 3) whether you, as the owner of both the tv and tt, choose to go inside or outside those limits is entirely up to you. For myself, having tried to tow my 6600 lbs TT with a 1/2 ton a few times, I decided I would be more comfortable stepping up to a 3/4 ton. I know I will be safely inside the parameters on both the tv and tt. Having that peace of mind with a wife and two small children riding along is worth it to me.

[nevadanick]

Just be thankful we have choices

[pappcam]

If I was going 8000 lbs. and up I would definitely look at a 3/4 ton but I also use my 1/2 ton as my DD and my 6500 lb. TT works fine for myself, my wife, my daughter and my dog.

I personally wouldn't use a 1/2 ton with a FW because that actual real life pin weight would use up pretty well all the payload availability on most 1/2 tons.

[hawkeye-08]

Seems to be a sensitive topic for some reason.

I will never understand why some think that their opinion is the only correct one. Give it a rest and have some respect for others and their opinions.

I'm glad I don't use my truck as a daily driver, as it would have made my decision on which truck to purchase much more difficult. For us, the factors for towing far outweighed the daily use criteria.

[rbpru]

There is one other point not to be ignored.

If I tell the DW we need a bigger, stronger, tougher TV when it is obvious that our current TV works just fine; if that bigger, stronger, tougher TV rides like a buckboard wagon and cost more to maintain; I AM TOAST!!!

There are more variables than meets the eye.:B

[TomG2]

The OP asked why people pick on 1/2 ton pickups. I was only pointing out that a step or two up will purchase a more competent tow vehicle. Not that either is bad. I like a little more cushion when it comes to capacity than some others and enjoy the benefits of such. Nothing wrong, either morally or legally, with other options that meet your requirements.

[spoon059]

TomG2 wrote:

spoon059 wrote:
....SNIP.......
My Tundra weighs 6000ish pounds and lets say I tow a 9000 lbs trailer. I've got 15,000 lbs combined as I descend this fictitious mountain when my brakes go out.

Someone else has a Ram 3500 dually that weighs 7500 lbs (curb weight, not including any gear) and is towing a trailer that weighs 30,000 lbs. That Ram has 37,500 lbs combined as they descend this fictitious mountain when their brakes go out.

Now... you are telling me that the 37,000 lbs Ram will stop in a shorter distance than the 15,000 lbs Tundra will?

...SNIP......
Now... who is pushing hyperbole on these forums?

You did not read what I wrote. If both tow vehicles are towing a 9,000 pound trailer which has less than perfect brakes, the 3500 will provide more braking capacity. Electric brakes are notoriously poor performers after a relatively short time. Checked yours lately? All it takes is a bad ground or a wire broken from driving through some brush.

You are right Tom, I missed that you were comparing both with a 7500 lbs trailer. Its already been mentioned, but I am curious to hear your response so I will pose these questions directly to you;

A 1 ton dually will most assuredly stop a 7500 lbs trailer faster than my Tundra. But wouldn't a Volvo Class 8 over the road truck perform even better than your 1 ton dually? Even though the dually is plenty of truck for that 7500 lbs, there is a truck with more curb weight and better brakes out there, isn't there? I mean, at what point does common sense overcome the "need" that some feel to have too much truck?

Bottom line, I tow about 3000-3500 miles a year. I tow at most 7500 lbs now, potentially 8200-8500 when I get my new trailer. I have a 2 year old and a new born. I anticipate owning this truck for another 5 years or so. My Tundra has sufficient payload for my family, my current trailer and my new trailer for the my expectations for the next 5 years.

Yes, a Ram 3500 dually CTD mega cab would work better. If money were not an object then I would own one. I have no NEED for it and as a young father with a limited budget and a family I have to make compromises. I chose to use the truck that meets my current and foreseeable needs, is already paid off, is comfortable for the family, is able to safely handle my trailer and allows me to share the experience of camping with my family.

I feel 100% comfortable with my truck. I get no sway and have plenty of power AND braking ability. If you, or anyone else on this forum, feels so strongly that I am unsafe I will present you two options;

#1 You can contact the Motor Vehicle Administration and have them revoke my license and registration because its unsafe (even though I am UNDER every single rating), or

#2 You can set up and start donations to a gofundme.com page and buy me a 2015 Ram 3500 dually CTD and pay for fuel for it.

[x96mnn]

spoon059 wrote:

rbpru wrote:
I have seen data to show improved weight capacity for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, but I have never seen data or advertisements that they will stop significantly faster than a 1/2 ton.

I also have not seen any data indicating they are less likely to rollovers. The bigger TVs may have bigger tires and a stouter suspension but you also have more rolling mass.

All TVs are designed to operate within certain parameters, how close to these limits or how much over you wish to go is nothing new.

TomG2 wrote:
This has nothing to do with them unloaded, only when both are towing 7,000 pounds and the electric brakes on the trailer fail to perform perfectly. Which brakes will have more capacity? Those on the 10,000 gvwr pickup or on the 7,500 pound gvwr model? Take a look at them sometime.

I tend to bring these points up in these arguments and nobody ever has anything intelligent to offer after I post it.

My Tundra weighs 6000ish pounds and lets say I tow a 9000 lbs trailer. I've got 15,000 lbs combined as I descend this fictitious mountain when my brakes go out.

Someone else has a Ram 3500 dually that weighs 7500 lbs (curb weight, not including any gear) and is towing a trailer that weighs 30,000 lbs. That Ram has 37,500 lbs combined as they descend this fictitious mountain when their brakes go out.

Now... you are telling me that the 37,000 lbs Ram will stop in a shorter distance than the 15,000 lbs Tundra will?

I highly doubt that is true. I would love to see if someone has empirical data to support this claim. It just doesn't add up to me.

Yes, I agree that a properly equipped and set up heavier truck will always handle better than a properly equipped and set up lighter truck. I don't think anyone will disagree with that sentiment. Lots of posters here have made the switch to a heavier duty truck. Good for them. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people cannot afford or justify the cost of a heavier duty truck when a half ton is PERFECTLY CAPABLE of handling their needs.

I'm not justifying people who exceed their weights. However I cannot understand the argument from some people here that a half ton is only capable of handling 75-80% of its rated values... but a 3/4 ton is "just as good as a 1 ton, it just doesn't have the extra 2" spacer". On one hand the engineers and testing on the half tons is way too liberal and they aren't safe to those weights... but on the other hand the 3/4 ton testing is too conservative and the 1 ton testing is accurate.

Now... who is pushing hyperbole on these forums?

Not sure I get your point. I have a dodge 3500 dually, are you asking me would I rather be coming down a mountain with by dually hauling 30000pds or your set up hauling 9000pds. Considering my dually would be overloaded by 10000pds think I would prefer being the halfton a few hundred pounds over.

Not sure what this proves though, the main topic in those types of arguments is keeping in the limts and driving responsible. You see just as much negative comments toward 3/4 ton trucks, and if there were 30000pd trailers people would be telling the dually guy he is crazy.

My dually handles great with 15000 pds behind it, about 5k less and roughly 2000pds of extra payload. My half ton handled great with a 6000pd camper, about 500pds of payload to spare. Did not tow great at 8000pds and about 50 pds of payload to spare. Do I think my dually will handle great at 19000 pds and 400 pds of payload left, NOPE. But both in its limits, need to drive what you feel compfortable with and roll the dice as you see fit.

[cbshoestring]

My little 2012 KZ Sportsmen 170 (19' 6" with no slides) trailer has a GVWR of 3500. It worked the heck outta of my 3.9l v6 Dakota when I bought the trailer in 2013; pushed me hard...Lets not even talk about sway even with WDH/anti-sway.

My point....the Dakota was 100% completely within specs to pull the TT. It got the job done. Worked fine for the couple of short trips we made in 2013 (longest 250 miles from home). Having years driving semis, I knew how to get the most out of it, and how to keep myself out of harms way.

The truck upgrade in '14 has been SWEEEETTTTTTTT. I still use the WDH/Sway even though I probably do not need it.The RAM just makes life a lot less stressful. Having it for our Pittsburgh to NYC, then on to Niagara Falls, trip in 2014 sure was nice.

SO MY TWO CENTS. If the 150/1500 gets the job done, and you are the occassional weekender close to home....save yourself thousands. If you plan to travel ALOT, something a bit bigger will give you a nicer pull.

2013 RAM 1500: 5.7L HEMI® V-8 6–Speed Automatic Transmission
Standard Towing: 5,000 lbs (2 268 kg) Max Towing: 10,450 lbs (4 740 kg) Max Payload: 1,710 lbs (775 kg)

Oh and by the way....real trucks have two doors and an eight foot bed. If you can not fit a sheet of plywood flat on the floor of your vehicle, it is NOT a truck. Lets call it a convertible SUV.

THAT WILL GET EM FIRED UP.

[BubbaChris]

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
I think the other side of the coin that hasn't been mentioned yet is the salesperson (TT or TV). They are very busy trying to close the deal and won't take the time to point out the real limitations.

I've had several salesmen over the years ask what I was planning to tow a TT / 5er with - and been told "You can't tow this trailer with that truck."

I also try to be that type of salesperson for my line of work, so I'm glad you've run into some others who honestly try to do right by their customers.

But even while I was buying my current TV, the salesman was more excited about my specific choice only because it was newer and more expensive than the other one I test drove. He didn't know enough about the factory tow package to use that as leverage when he could have.

[CKNSLS]

Isn't somebody going to link that youtube video with the Dually rolling over with the TT attached?

[Gdetrailer]

4X4Dodger wrote:

TomG2 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
....snip.......... And until this is done please do not continue to claim that a 3/4 ton truck is by default SAFER that a 1/2 ton or an SUV. There are too many factors involved.

You really think that a half ton pickup with a "Tow rating" of 9,600 pounds is good for that or more? Maybe I read it wrong, but you seem to be saying that the ratings are lowered by the engineers and lawyers?

Yes I do and that is **almost** exactly what I am saying. I said that the ACTUAL DESIGN LOAD is at least 1.5 times higher than the Design SPEC. And that the Design spec is further DE-RATED by the legal department to the numbers you see published so they can have what I called "legal Headroom" in case they must defend their decisions in court.

All over the world I have seen much smaller vehicles than 1/2 ton Pick ups carrying/towing much larger loads on a daily work basis than what most Americans believe is even possible. With much smaller engines. Are the physics different? No. It's the legal system that is different.

And further, as I pointed out previously, there has never been any real world testing of what the actual limits are for any given truck/spec combination. Until then the numbers are really meaningless.

4x4.. Are you a AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEER? Or just some backyard armchair engineer.. There IS a difference.. and I highly doubt that your are the first type of engineer I mentioned..

Reason being is if you truly were a AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEER you would would be under a NON-DISCLOSURE/NO COMPETE clause as terms of your employment and would not ever be able to release this kind of info on a public forum..

Manufacturers DO NOT "over engineer" things now days, if that was the case then every single wire and hose on our vehicles would be EXACTLY 1.5 TIMES LONGER THAN NEEDED..

They are not, in fact I often wonder just how in the world did they get that wire to stretch the extra 1 or 2 mmm in order to plug it in..

As a backyard mechanic with a lot of years of repairing my own vehicles I CAN ASSURE YOU that there is no truth to the 1.5 TIMES over engineering of any vehicle I have ever had..

The specs that are officially released is the max the the MANUFACTURER is WILLING TO GUARANTEE.. That is because the vehicle is only as strong as the WEAKEST PART..

Without CLEAR KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT the weakest part is your are simply GUESSING.

Guess wrong and YOU are now on the hook if anything goes wrong..

I personally don't care to "rely" on your 1.5 times heavier than needed statement.. Instead I would follow the folks who designed and built the vehicle recommendations which are pretty clearly spelled out on the tire loading sticker now days.

I OWNED a heavy half years ago.. It ate suspension parts and brakes, I had fully rebuilt the front end by the time I had 50,000 miles on it.. It needed rebulit the second time by the time I traded it at 140,000 miles for a F250.. Brakes.. Yeah I could count on new brakes all around at 40,000 like a clock..

That F250 I STILL have with 200,000 miles on the clock only needed ball joints at 120,000 miles and has all the original tie rod ends..

Brakes, yeah the F250 is easy on them, changed the fronts after only 90,000 miles and the rears after 120,000 miles..

That is driving the same roads hauling the same loads as the heavy half..

So much for your 1.5 times over engineered..

[TomG2]

spoon059 wrote:
....SNIP.......
My Tundra weighs 6000ish pounds and lets say I tow a 9000 lbs trailer. I've got 15,000 lbs combined as I descend this fictitious mountain when my brakes go out.

Someone else has a Ram 3500 dually that weighs 7500 lbs (curb weight, not including any gear) and is towing a trailer that weighs 30,000 lbs. That Ram has 37,500 lbs combined as they descend this fictitious mountain when their brakes go out.

Now... you are telling me that the 37,000 lbs Ram will stop in a shorter distance than the 15,000 lbs Tundra will?

...SNIP......
Now... who is pushing hyperbole on these forums?

You did not read what I wrote. If both tow vehicles are towing a 9,000 pound trailer which has less than perfect brakes, the 3500 will provide more braking capacity. Electric brakes are notoriously poor performers after a relatively short time. Checked yours lately? All it takes is a bad ground or a wire broken from driving through some brush.

[Gr8life]

I have owned a lot of tow vehicles and trailers, plus a fifth wheel and a truck camper. All within the capacity of my 2500HD which has a payload of over 3,000 pounds. I like having options and don't know where or what I will be using my truck for in 2016 or 2017. One can tow a small trailer (and I have) with a higher rated pickup, but not a larger one with a smaller rated pickup. It's your money Grasshopper. Choose wisely.

[spoon059]

rbpru wrote:
I have seen data to show improved weight capacity for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, but I have never seen data or advertisements that they will stop significantly faster than a 1/2 ton.

I also have not seen any data indicating they are less likely to rollovers. The bigger TVs may have bigger tires and a stouter suspension but you also have more rolling mass.

All TVs are designed to operate within certain parameters, how close to these limits or how much over you wish to go is nothing new.

TomG2 wrote:
This has nothing to do with them unloaded, only when both are towing 7,000 pounds and the electric brakes on the trailer fail to perform perfectly. Which brakes will have more capacity? Those on the 10,000 gvwr pickup or on the 7,500 pound gvwr model? Take a look at them sometime.

I tend to bring these points up in these arguments and nobody ever has anything intelligent to offer after I post it.

My Tundra weighs 6000ish pounds and lets say I tow a 9000 lbs trailer. I've got 15,000 lbs combined as I descend this fictitious mountain when my brakes go out.

Someone else has a Ram 3500 dually that weighs 7500 lbs (curb weight, not including any gear) and is towing a trailer that weighs 30,000 lbs. That Ram has 37,500 lbs combined as they descend this fictitious mountain when their brakes go out.

Now... you are telling me that the 37,000 lbs Ram will stop in a shorter distance than the 15,000 lbs Tundra will?

I highly doubt that is true. I would love to see if someone has empirical data to support this claim. It just doesn't add up to me.

Yes, I agree that a properly equipped and set up heavier truck will always handle better than a properly equipped and set up lighter truck. I don't think anyone will disagree with that sentiment. Lots of posters here have made the switch to a heavier duty truck. Good for them. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people cannot afford or justify the cost of a heavier duty truck when a half ton is PERFECTLY CAPABLE of handling their needs.

I'm not justifying people who exceed their weights. However I cannot understand the argument from some people here that a half ton is only capable of handling 75-80% of its rated values... but a 3/4 ton is "just as good as a 1 ton, it just doesn't have the extra 2" spacer". On one hand the engineers and testing on the half tons is way too liberal and they aren't safe to those weights... but on the other hand the 3/4 ton testing is too conservative and the 1 ton testing is accurate.

Now... who is pushing hyperbole on these forums?