Why is CWR so much less than GAWR? I am confused :(

[mjglauner]

I want to buy a Starcraft truck camper that lists a wet weight of 2442.. I am not sure I should put this on my 2002 GMC Sierra 1500. Does the CWR mean I should not have a camper that weighs more than that? That number is 1488, but the GAWR is 3150. Most campers that I have looked at are well over 1488! I do have airbags on the truck. Any advice much appreciated 🙂

[mkirsch]

One key thing: YOU HAVE TO COUNT THE WEIGHT OF THE TRUCK TOO!

The GAWR(rear) of 3686lb has to support camper + truck.

[free_radical]

mjglauner wrote:
Thanks to all who responded 🙂 I am still confused but have learned from your posts.. it does seem that general opinion is that a 1500 truck should probably not have a TC (or at least one that is 2400#). The truck is not x-tended cab, and numbers are GVWR 6400, GAWR (frt) 3150, GAWR (rear) 3686. The owner manual for the Starcraft shows the 'center of gravity' at the rear axle and my mechanic thinks it would be fine on my truck, so this is what confused me. I'm thinking that optimum performance and safety would dictate not having a TC that heavy (or get a bigger truck!), so will keep looking. Really appreciate how quickly this community responded!!

There should be a placard in the glovebox saying exactly how much weight your truck can carry..
I had 2000GMC 1500 and it could only carry about 1700 lbs..
4x4 will carry even less..

[PUCampin]

Ummmm..... River&Sand, respectfully, you negelcted to include the weight of the truck itself in your example.

This TC will exceed GAWR rear and GVWR before adding any owner stuff.

Curb weight of a 2002 1500 reg cab long bed is around 4200lbs,

So if you say the weight distribution is 65/35 front/rear, that means 2730 is on the front and 1470is on the rear.

So GAWR Rear = 3686-1470 = 2216 before maxing out. Since the OP states the CG of the camper would be directly over the rear, that means all 2400lbs sits over the axle exceeding it by almost 200lbs BEFORE adding any passengers, food, stuff.

GVWR = 6400 - 4200 = 2200lbs max payload. The camper is already 200lbs over this.

The GVWR of theis older non HD 1/2 is just to light for a hard side TC. And by the time you take a passenger and add all your stuff you will not be exceeding the GAWR and GVWR numbers by a little, it will be by A LOT. MAYBE a very light pop-up TC would work if you can find one that weighs about 1000lbs less, around 1500lbs. That way when you add your stuff and yourself you will only be exceeding these numbers by a little

Can you do stuff to the truck to make it work? Maybe. Airbags, overloads, sway bar, D rated tires, etc, but you still have the semi floating axle and brakes of a 1/2 T. All those mods will also begin to get almost if not more expensive than selling the truck, adding the money that you would have spent in upgrades, and get a good older 3/4 T.

[River_Sand]

To help put this in perspective, let's look at the numbers.
I will use your numbers and assumed curb weight;

Curb weight of a 2002 1500 reg cab long bed is around 4200lbs,
So say the weight distribution is 65/35 front/rear that means 2730 is on the front and 1470ish on the rear. (Thanks PUCampin)

1. Truck CWR 1488- Camper (wet weight) 2442 over by 954 lbs. This rating is derived by a formula using truck weight, options, axle ratings and passengers. Most with TC's are over this number anyways. On some trucks this weight is listed in the glove box.

2. Truck GAWR(rear) 3686-1470 = 2216, Camper 2442 over by 226 lbs - this is the one of most important numbers because this is the max weight the manufacture says the axle will support safely. Also most of the loaded TC will be over this axle.
So let's say 1000 lbs of stuff in the TC and truck. So that brings us to 1226 lbs over. Also some of the weight will transfer to the front axle, but only way to determine that is to weight the combo. So for this demo I used the full weight.

3. Truck GAWR(front) 3150-2730 = 420 - TC ? This is where the COG comes in as to how much weight will transfer forward. Usually more forward the better, which won't help in this situation.

4. Truck gross is 6400-4200 = 2200, TC - 2442 over by 242.

So looking at the supplied numbers this is not a good match.

Another factor are tires, most 1/2 tons I have seen have P rated tires not LT's. So will need to possibly swap for a good set of E rated LT's. Some of the early trucks had 15" wheels which make finding LT's more problematic.

Do you want to tow something? That detracts from the Gross too.

So the bottom line is weight everything and get the most accurate weights to make your decision.

Good luck.

On Edit: WOW...I was OTL on this one, as was pointed out I forgot the truck weight. Thanks to PUCampin for catching my oversight. I can't have the new TC folks who are looking for answers, getting the wrong info.

[mjglauner]

Thanks to all who responded 🙂 I am still confused but have learned from your posts.. it does seem that general opinion is that a 1500 truck should probably not have a TC (or at least one that is 2400#). The truck is not x-tended cab, and numbers are GVWR 6400, GAWR (frt) 3150, GAWR (rear) 3686. The owner manual for the Starcraft shows the 'center of gravity' at the rear axle and my mechanic thinks it would be fine on my truck, so this is what confused me. I'm thinking that optimum performance and safety would dictate not having a TC that heavy (or get a bigger truck!), so will keep looking. Really appreciate how quickly this community responded!!

[Led_67]

Here is a link that should help you out

clicky

And you might want to scroll through and explore this

clicky

Good luck

[JIMNLIN]

Half ton RAWR run from approx 3800-4050 for a std duty 1/2 ton on up to 4800 for the F150 HD model and on up to 6000-6084 for a '00-'06 1500HD GM and the 1500 Mega cab Dodge.

Not knowing what truck numbers a OP has just leads to lots of guessing.

[billtex]

hmknightnc wrote:
I think you need to check your numbers again. Your 1/2 ton truck can't have a rear axle rating of only 3150, that number is too low. If CWR means Cargo Wieght Rating then that is the number the manufacture recommends you do not exceed and ~1500# for a half ton seems about right. The absolute maximum you can load is GAWR minus actual wieght on the axle prior to loading the camper.

2400# on a half ton is not going to work. 2400# will likely work on a modern 3/4 ton but might be too much even for an older 3/4 ton.

Actualy...that sounds about right for a 1/2 ton RAWR.

[Steve_in_29]

Bigfootchevy wrote:
I am not saying your wrong but I question how Starcraft truck camper lists a "wet" weight of 2442..

I believe most people call the wet weight meaning of their camper after they are loaded and ready to travel.

Just to be clear, I am talking about that extra battery, food in the Fridge, clothes, etc.

To me, that's the true wet weight, but others will disagree.

So what I am saying is expect this camper to be heavier than you expect.

Paul

"
"Wet weight" is a term commonly used by camper manufacturers to designate the weight of a camper with ALL fluids (water/LP/etc) on board but before any owner supplied items (food/equip/clothes/etc) are loaded.

[skipnchar]

If your payload equaled the axle rating, there would be no flexibility as to how that weight were loaded in the truck. Axle ratings more than equal gross weight so this flexibiity can be used to actually achieve the gvwr.

[KD4UPL]

The CWR likely assumes you have a 150 pound person in each seat position in the truck. If this is an ext. cab model that adds up to a lot of weight. If you don't plan to carry that many people you can haul more camper.
Either way, making a 1500 truck properly haul a truck camper is problematic. They just aren't built with much payload. In fact, most truck campers will overload a lot of 2500 trucks when you figure in food, water, propane, batteries, passengers, gear, etc.
My advice would be to load the truck with the normal passenger load you would have for camping, remove the tailgate and fill the gas tank. Now go weigh the truck at a scale and note the rear axle weight. Subtract this weight from the RAWR. The result is how much weight you can haul. This will likely be over your truck's GVWR. This is fairly normal for people hauling TC but generates lots of negative comments form others who don't agree with the practice.
(Just see what follows.)

[Bigfootchevy]

I am not saying your wrong but I question how Starcraft truck camper lists a "wet" weight of 2442..

I believe most people call the wet weight meaning of their camper after they are loaded and ready to travel.

Just to be clear, I am talking about that extra battery, food in the Fridge, clothes, etc.

To me, that's the true wet weight, but others will disagree.

So what I am saying is expect this camper to be heavier than you expect.

Paul

[hmknightnc]

I think you need to check your numbers again. Your 1/2 ton truck can't have a rear axle rating of only 3150, that number is too low. If CWR means Cargo Wieght Rating then that is the number the manufacture recommends you do not exceed and ~1500# for a half ton seems about right. The absolute maximum you can load is GAWR minus actual wieght on the axle prior to loading the camper.

2400# on a half ton is not going to work. 2400# will likely work on a modern 3/4 ton but might be too much even for an older 3/4 ton.