Another speed trap shut down

[down_home]

Arlington Heights, Hamilton county, Ohio, disbanned its whole police force, after 2 City Clerks were caught taking over 260,000.00 from the proceeds of the speed trap, they operated, on one mile stretch, of I75.
A number, of Rvers had been caught in a few years.
93% of court cases were speeding on I75.
I can't post a link.

[wnjj]

4X4Dodger wrote:
This argument really is not about whether to obey or not obey the speed limit. The REAL problem is that the punishment is monetary. This leads to all kinds of abuses in many jurisdictions.

If you simply took the money out of the equation we would be having a much different discussion. Speed laws would be enforced more equitably. Courts and cities could not then game the system as so many do now.

To all of those that say "Just obey the speed limit and there is no problem" Well not really. I agree your chances of getting a ticket lessen however Police are human, they make mistakes, Radar in the hands of an ill trained officer, not correctly calibrated is often wrong. Most jusrisdictions wont even countenance a challenge to their radar in court as to do so and win throws the entire system into question.

And lastly speeding itself is too much of an issue period. It has been made the bogeyman and cited (wrongly) in way too many instances as the "cause" of accidents. Accidents are comples sets of actions and decisions that cannot be reduced to a simplistic cause and effect.

Many countries have much higher speed limits than we do and fewer accidents per capita. It's our obsession with "speed" that is part of the problem.

One of the best posts of this thread.

[OkSixpack]

tinner12002 wrote:

RandACampin wrote:
Obey the speed limit (law) and you won't have a problem.

X2!!

Not really true, I know three people that have received MAJOR tickets when they were not speeding. Two were on highways and one was in a school zone. Whether the wrong vehicle was stopped or the radar gun was wrong doesn't matter. A judge doesn't care what your defense is, you aren't going to win. I used to ride with a policeman now and then, and it was not uncommon to get false reading on the radar. And I am not anti-police either, I just don't like being guilty when you aren't.
Jim

[4X4Dodger]

This argument really is not about whether to obey or not obey the speed limit. The REAL problem is that the punishment is monetary. This leads to all kinds of abuses in many jurisdictions.

If you simply took the money out of the equation we would be having a much different discussion. Speed laws would be enforced more equitably. Courts and cities could not then game the system as so many do now.

To all of those that say "Just obey the speed limit and there is no problem" Well not really. I agree your chances of getting a ticket lessen however Police are human, they make mistakes, Radar in the hands of an ill trained officer, not correctly calibrated is often wrong. Most jusrisdictions wont even countenance a challenge to their radar in court as to do so and win throws the entire system into question.

And lastly speeding itself is too much of an issue period. It has been made the bogeyman and cited (wrongly) in way too many instances as the "cause" of accidents. Accidents are comples sets of actions and decisions that cannot be reduced to a simplistic cause and effect.

Many countries have much higher speed limits than we do and fewer accidents per capita. It's our obsession with "speed" that is part of the problem.

[hotpepperkid]

Georgew48 wrote:
I got a speeding ticket in Louisiana one time for 1 mph over the limit on the interstate. The ticket even showed that I was only 1 mph over. It was a state highway patrolman. The funny thing is it was a deserted stretch of highway early in the morning. I saw him sitting on the side of the road so I moved over to the left lane to pass him. I had the cruise control set for the speed limit but must have been off a little. After he pulled me over we had a nice talk about life in general and after about 10 minuets he said I guess we need to get going. I thought he was just letting me go but then he said sorry but I have to give you this ticket. He was a real nice guy bit still gave me the ticket. At first I thought he was joking. The best thing that happened is my step father was the college room mate of the district attorney for that parish and he sent me a nice letter that said if I promised not to speed in that Parrish again he would drop the ticket. I have great appreciation for law enforcement officers and hold no grudge against him.

Louisiana is famous for that sort of thing. 60 did a thing about it several years ago. They put a cam on the speed of the can and got stopped several time for doing the speed limit and under on a section of I-10. They used the moneys to finiance the PD. They even impounded some ladies care because the police chief needed an new car. Small towns all over the country are like that.

[tinner12002]

RandACampin wrote:
Obey the speed limit (law) and you won't have a problem.

X2!!

[mikegt4]

I am one of those celebrating this. I have been avoiding Arlington Heights since the 1960's.

Arlington Heights has been in the revenue generating business for many, many decades. As the article said it is a very small village that the world has bypassed. It is completely surrounded by larger cities. The construction of I-75 has pretty much made it an island with very limited access. All the business and industry left decades ago leaving only a small low income population. The government has been run by family members (the Gertz family also has operated the neighboring Village of Reading for at least 50 years) and the police officers, if not family, were generally the bottom of the class at the academy.

I-75 crosses the village as an elevated highway with only one very small exit ramp. The only reason Arlington Heights "patrols" the highway is for the purpose of revenue.

A few years ago the nearby Village of Elmwood Place came under fire for using speed cameras to run the town. The same conditions applied: cut off by the highway, businesses left and only low income population remained, family or friend operated government. I worked right next to Elmwood Place and can attest to the fact that they carefully work just inside the law to extract money from those passing through. Many of my co-workers got tickets there. Signs were often hidden behind trees, on the side of a building or positioned were they would be shielded behind parked vehicles. Two of my co-workers got tickets for not seeing a small "no left turn" sign posted about 15' up a telephone pole.

I am not crying for them, too bad they aren't all serving jail time.

[Chuck_thehammer]

in September 2015... exiting a small town in Ohio. (I live in Ohio) the 55 mph sign was 50 feet in front of me, before I started to accelerate to 55...

got a ticket, 50 in 35. first ticket in 22 years.
MUST wait till you Pass the sign to accelerate up...

police car was hiding behind tall bushes...

[WeBeFulltimers]

When I was still trucking before retirement I received a ticket from a small town city LEO. After handing me the ticket he said "If you will come in next week and pay this promptly I will see to it that this does not go on your driving record. We just want OUR money!" I paid it within 2-3 days and it never showed up.

[seaeagle2]

Just north of Seattle, there are a number of small jurisdictions that strictly enforce speed limits, to the extent that they have reputations for being speed traps. One thing it did for me as a young just licensed driver was to learn to obey the speed limit, and where their favorite hangout were (and still are). When my son's friend got a ticket, they were both shocked when I said, "let me guess it was on the curve by the 7-11." They shine their spotlight up onto the streetlight to darken it, then sit and run radar, they've been doing it for 40 years...

[3oaks]

What don't many drivers understand about breaking the law. Going over the speed limit is breaking the law..........period. I always felt the cops should either ticket everybody going over the speed limit or ticket nobody.

[mgirardo]

BCSnob wrote:
To me a speed trap is when the posted speed decreases with the sign obscured from the view of motorists and tickets are written for exceeding the lower speed limit. When has it become entrapment to enforce the clearly posted speed limits (unless enforcement is near or at the accuracy of the speed measurement devices)? I don't buy the argument that enforcing laws (speeding, running red lights, passing stopped school buses, etc) is wrong because it generates revenue.

This is what I would call a speed trap as well.

A police officer sitting on the side of the road looking for speeders is not a speed trap. Even if he is hidden from view. I don't consider that a speed trap.

I exceed the speed limit, but not by too much. I try to keep within 10 percent of the posted speed limit. It has been a long time since I have been pulled over for speeding. I just drove from NJ to GA and saw very few LEOs on I 95. I was speeding anywhere from 4 to 6 mph over in a 70 mph zone when I passed 3 different LEOs in GA (only state I saw them in this trip). BTW - this was in a car, not the Motorhome. I generally only drive within 2 or 3 mph over or under the posted speed limit in the motorhome.

Any police officer that pulled me over for doing 1 mph over the speed limit would get an earful at the time of the ticket and in court. I have had portable GPS units in 6 different vehicles I have owned. Every single one of those vehicles had speedometers that were off by a couple mph at when going 60 mph. I know there are DOT specs that allow for some discrepancy in OEM speedometers.

This is from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration regarding commercial vehicles. I couldn't find the DOT spec for passenger cars:

Each bus, truck, and truck-tractor must be equipped with a speedometer indicating vehicle speed in miles per hour and/or kilometers per hour. The speedometer must be accurate to within plus or minus 8 km/hr (5 mph) at a speed of 80 km/hr (50 mph).

-Michael

[bid_time]

Everything said on here both pro and con about speed traps is basically correct. The fact is there is no right or wrong way to look at it. For myself, I try not to be the fastest car on the road (the target). Let the other guy be the target and I'll just go on about my business un-impeded.

[down_home]

I will join in. I see a lot of confusing reckless driving with speeding, ie over a posted number.
Reasonable and prudent should be the Law as it was in Tn until 1955. I knew, of one sign still up, that said resume safe speed, after leaving a small town.
Then Gerald Ford sat speed limits at 55. Anything 70 or over was now reckless driving. Now speed limits on Interstates here are 70 and 80 is permitted, in most places. Only the numbers changed based on politics,not safe speeds.
Reasonable and Prudent, for the conditions needs to be once again the law of the land.
In small town and communities it needs to be lower but not 20mph on a divided 5 lane hwy. That is a designed money or speed trap.
Those entrapments and traps don't just cost fines they can wreck insurance rates.
Many years ago we stopped an idea to turn our road through the community into a money maker. So I know for fact it does happen.
Today's new left lane cars feel like 40 at triple digits and stop shorter, than the cars, of the sixties doing 30.
That is just hardware that can safely operate at the 80-85 mph speeds and over in some places. That is safety.
Everyone operating a vehicle with consideration of everyone else on the road, is safety. Everyone going the same rate of flow or speed is safety. Being an obstacle is reckless. Racing through traffic is reckless. 75 in a 70 is not reckless, road conditions permitting.
The problem is speed limits set to revenues, and or demands by Business Owners and Porch Sitters, to slow traffic flow, to suit their desires, not safety concerns it seems a majority of the time.
Some locations a 20mph speed limit is reasonable, such a school zone, but tickets for 21 mph are simply to fill coffers.
Reckless Driving can be at any speed, which is what most seem trying to address.

[cbshoestring]

I got a ticket as I approached a 25 zone coming out of a 45 zone.

I pleaded my case that I had in facted slowed to 25mph before reaching the sign. Local cop told me the speed limit began as soon as I could "see" the 25 sign.

I could see the 45 on the other end of town, so I declared I could driver 45 thru town. He said nope...it doesn't go up until after you passed the sign.

I just mailed them their money.