Outdoor "decorative" lighting RANT!

[Thunder_Mountai]

Ok, I have four solar lights that I put out near the door to light a pathway in and out to walk the dog. I've got some outside lights that we burn for a gathering. BUT some people are over the top.

Here is the reason for the rant. We were camped at McDowell Mountain Regional Park outside Fountain Hills, AZ. Sure it is just over the hill from Scottsdale and the smogbowl, but it does have a nice night sky. Nothing like Ft. Davis or Natural Bridges, but still a nice sky.

This guy pulls in and lines his campsite in white ground lights. This guy's slides have "alien" lights under them and on his dash that change colors from red, to green, to blue... Ok, this is not a real problem as long as he is outside. But this guy let them run all night long. It reminded me of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

So, after three nights, I put a sticky note on his windshield while walking the dog at 5 a.m. It read, "Do you have any idea how obnoxious your lights are? Not to mention the light pollution or waste of energy. The least you could do is put your lights on a timer."

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sowego]

I agree with the OP...some "camper" are just plain crazy with all their lights. Most of us travel for fun and want to get away from the bright lights of the city and some of us are on the road fulltime and still want to keep things simple. I would love to see RV parks make a rule that all excessive lights must be shut off at 10 pm. Just think of all the energy they are wasting and the RV parks is paying the bill!

[DutchmenSport]

dahkota wrote:
Amusing and appropriate here: Dear Neighbor:

Now that's interesting! I laughed all the way through it! But made me wonder, if they are living in a gated community, why didn't the offendee just report the offender to the local home owner's association? If the association had no problems, then he didn't have a leg to stand on with his complaining. If the offender was in violation, the association could have addressed the issue and the offendee could have remained anamonous, and still invite the neighbor over for that barb-q.

[dahkota]

Amusing and appropriate here: Dear Neighbor:

[2012Coleman]

This thread is a useless waste of server disc space. The OP wants everyone to know that he didn't like someone's lights and also wansts everyone to know he lacks the social skills to communicate with other humans except shrouded by the privacy this forum provides. He doesn't say the lights were preventing him from sleeping - checking to see if they were still on must have been the first thing hed did upon waking.

If I'm doing something that bothers you, by all means, let me know. If I can accomodate your issue by changing my behaivor within the bounds of what is normal for this activity, then I will. Turning down my music - ok. My lights bothering you? Whoops, too many beers last night and forgot to turn them off - sorry. Have a problem with my wood burning camp fire? - sorry, but we enjoy our fire and maybe the wind wil change.

Tape a note to my windshield and then scamper off, only earnes you my scorn and a few choice monikers.

Life is short - try to be a little more happier.

[JJBIRISH]

JEBar
You are correct… we always hear about consideration and being inconsiderate 90% of the time it’s to blame someone else for doing something we/they don’t like… generally they very eloquently define considerate through their eyes, but seldom if ever do the self-proclaimed considerate even mention tolerance, or its definition…
being considerate in public settings, is evenly divided 50% consideration, and 50% tolerance… there is not one without the other and there is no 60/40…

[JEBar]

wnjj wrote:
If you* are rarely asked to stop doing something, the asker probably has too high of standards though it shouldn't be too much skin off your nose to stop anyway for the sake of being civil. If you find yourself being asked frequently, you might consider changing your habits.

* 'you' doesn't mean you personally 🙂

agree .... I don't recall ever asking anyone to stop doing something at their site and know I've never been asked to do so .... guess I'm spending too much time enjoying being out and about (as this is being typed we are camped near San Antonio) than I am at looking for or worrying about something on our neighbor's sites

Jim

[wnjj]

JEBar wrote:
.... in short I have the choice of getting along or moving on .... I don't see that I have the right to go into a CG and demand that, regardless of the rules, everyone must conform to my likes and/or dislikes

You also have the choice to ask the other guy, politely, if he minds changing his behavior. I totally agree with you that nobody has the right to demand anything of the others though they can certainly ask. If someone asks politely and the other person refuses, it says a lot more about the other person.

If you* are rarely asked to stop doing something, the asker probably has too high of standards though it shouldn't be too much skin off your nose to stop anyway for the sake of being civil. If you find yourself being asked frequently, you might consider changing your habits.

* 'you' doesn't mean you personally 🙂

[JEBar]

wnjj wrote:

JEBar wrote:

wnjj wrote:

JEBar wrote:
if a CG has rules against lighting, as noted in some post above, and I want to stay there, I believe I should go by their rules .... the same is true of rules governing pets, noise, speed and so on .... if there are no CG rules against having lights, what I do on my site is my business .... its not up to me to tell anyone who is following the rules that I want them to follow mine as well .... nor is it up to them to try and enforce their rules on me

Jim

It's true that your site is your business, but lights don't stay on your site.

No wonder we have so many "rules" these days. Too many think that every behavior that isn't forbidden by some kind of "rule" must be ok. Those non-ruled things some people avoid doing anyway are called courtesy.

it is true that lights on one site are confined to that site .... the same is true of campfire smoke/smell and any other number of things .... it would appear that to some folks courtesy should only extend one way .... in other words, things that aren't against the CG's rules on my site which we enjoy while camping offend someone, I should be courteous and not enjoy them .... however, the person who chooses to be offended has no obligation to respect the legal preferences of their neighbor ..... I had no clue that courtesy was a one way street ..... interesting logic, very interesting logic

Jim

If you consider "just dealing with it" a form of courtesy then I guess I'd agree it is a one way street. Courtesy is defined as doing or saying something polite or repsectful to another. Not doing something (i.e. sucking it up) is not being courteous.

For the unwritten rules of courtesy, it helps to use some common sense. If the "legal" (there's that term again) things you do on your sight would likely offend the average person, you're probably being inconsiderate if you choose to do it anyway.

Maybe times are changing and people see things differently. but personally, I expect campgrounds to have campfires. They install fire pits for this reason. Burning plastic on my fire would probably offend someone, regardless if there were a rule against it or not.

If campgrounds included a yard light in each site I would expect some people to use them too but probably wouldn't stay there. Someone bringing in their own lights is another matter, IMHO.

Poeple talking and having a good time is fine but screaming loudly back and forth all day would be legal, but inconsiderate, IMHO.

"It's my site and my business so long as it's legal" is too simple and inconsiderate of an attitude, IMHO. Rules aren't the only thing that should govern behavior.

rules certainly aren't the only thing that should govern behavior but they are an important component .... it would be interesting to know exactly what constitutes, "If the "legal" (there's that term again) things you do on your sight would likely offend the average person, you're probably being inconsiderate if you choose to do it anyway."
.... my hunch is that when CG owners get hit with a good number of complaints rules are established to handle whatever seems to offend their average patron .... no rule, would seem to indicate that an issue isn't offensive to enough average persons .... to each of us what is normal is pretty much what seems normal to us .... if a CG allows something that bothers me, I don't go there .... in short I have the choice of getting along or moving on .... I don't see that I have the right to go into a CG and demand that, regardless of the rules, everyone must conform to my likes and/or dislikes

Jim

[pappcam]

What I'm starting to understand about this place is there are people who don't like other people and have chosen a hobby or lifestyle that gets them away from people but choose to go do their hobby or lifestyle in a place where they likely have less space and privacy as they do at home so they get angry at other people and come here to vent about them.

Interesting...

[beemerphile1]

mowermech wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

jake2250 wrote:
How a bout you invest in something this simple and let the rest of society get on with what THEY ENJOY...

I don't know, how much does she cost and what does it have to do with campground lighting?

The initial cost isn't too bad, but the trade-in will bankrupt you!

the blinders relate to campground lighting.

Oh, now I see. I didn't notice the mask earlier! :B

[wnjj]

JEBar wrote:

wnjj wrote:

JEBar wrote:
if a CG has rules against lighting, as noted in some post above, and I want to stay there, I believe I should go by their rules .... the same is true of rules governing pets, noise, speed and so on .... if there are no CG rules against having lights, what I do on my site is my business .... its not up to me to tell anyone who is following the rules that I want them to follow mine as well .... nor is it up to them to try and enforce their rules on me

Jim

It's true that your site is your business, but lights don't stay on your site.

No wonder we have so many "rules" these days. Too many think that every behavior that isn't forbidden by some kind of "rule" must be ok. Those non-ruled things some people avoid doing anyway are called courtesy.

it is true that lights on one site are confined to that site .... the same is true of campfire smoke/smell and any other number of things .... it would appear that to some folks courtesy should only extend one way .... in other words, things that aren't against the CG's rules on my site which we enjoy while camping offend someone, I should be courteous and not enjoy them .... however, the person who chooses to be offended has no obligation to respect the legal preferences of their neighbor ..... I had no clue that courtesy was a one way street ..... interesting logic, very interesting logic

Jim

If you consider "just dealing with it" a form of courtesy then I guess I'd agree it is a one way street. Courtesy is defined as doing or saying something polite or repsectful to another. Not doing something (i.e. sucking it up) is not being courteous.

For the unwritten rules of courtesy, it helps to use some common sense. If the "legal" (there's that term again) things you do on your sight would likely offend the average person, you're probably being inconsiderate if you choose to do it anyway.

Maybe times are changing and people see things differently. but personally, I expect campgrounds to have campfires. They install fire pits for this reason. Burning plastic on my fire would probably offend someone, regardless if there were a rule against it or not.

If campgrounds included a yard light in each site I would expect some people to use them too but probably wouldn't stay there. Someone bringing in their own lights is another matter, IMHO.

Poeple talking and having a good time is fine but screaming loudly back and forth all day would be legal, but inconsiderate, IMHO.

"It's my site and my business so long as it's legal" is too simple and inconsiderate of an attitude, IMHO. Rules aren't the only thing that should govern behavior.

[Thunder_Mountai]

pappcam wrote:
If the OP had put a note on my trailer like that I'd be going to the nearest store to pick up halogen construction lights and I'd pretend he didn't exist.

I left the morning I left him the note. Hope the rest of the campers enjoyed his light show.

[mowermech]

shakyjay wrote:

mowermech wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

jake2250 wrote:
How a bout you invest in something this simple and let the rest of society get on with what THEY ENJOY...

I don't know, how much does she cost and what does it have to do with campground lighting?

The initial cost isn't too bad, but the trade-in will bankrupt you!

the blinders relate to campground lighting.

And I thought the blinders were so she couldn't see what I look like. :S

I may surprise some people, but I'm too nice to mention that possibility...

[Jarlaxle]

pappcam wrote:
If the OP had put a note on my trailer like that I'd be going to the nearest store to pick up halogen construction lights and I'd pretend he didn't exist.

Go for it, dude...I'll see your floodlight and raise you my 1,000,000 candlepower portable spotlight. Maybe I'll set it to flash all night.

(My wife wears a sleep mask and I can sleep through anything after years on night shift.)

[shakyjay]

mowermech wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

jake2250 wrote:
How a bout you invest in something this simple and let the rest of society get on with what THEY ENJOY...

I don't know, how much does she cost and what does it have to do with campground lighting?

The initial cost isn't too bad, but the trade-in will bankrupt you!

the blinders relate to campground lighting.

And I thought the blinders were so she couldn't see what I look like. :S