brake shoe question

[riven1950]

2013 f150 4x4 CC 60,000 miles

Dealer says I need new front brake shoes and rotors , rear brakes shortly

Only shoes they have are Ford shoes and I would like something with less dust. Front wheels always have a lot of brake dust on them. They claim the FMC pads are low dust.

Anyway, I am planning on going to a local shop to get the brakes done.

Several questions:

1- Local shop quoted Wagner pads but will likely use whatever I want. Problem is I don't know what is best. Any suggestions?

2- Thought I might get them to flush the brake lines and refill at same time. Good idea @ 60,000 miles or not?

3-Rear brakes are still ok they say, although getting close. Any reason to do both at same time other than convenience?

4-Dealer also said I needed front rotors. I looked at them and they do have some minor grooves in them, so I'm sure they at least need to be turned or whatever you call it. Local guy said they would measure them and turn or recommend replaement. Ideas?

BTW brakes have always functioned fine. Never been overheated or abused.

Thanks

[bartlettj]

I've not owned your model of F150, but I find in general the OEM pads work the best for me for towing and general all around use with a good tradeoff of noise, pad life, rotor life and dust. Putting a coat of wax on the wheels right after you clean them off prevents brake dust from sticking for a while. If you suddenly start noticing you are generating more dust than usually that either means your pads are done or something has messed up the front/rear proportioning like bad brake hoses or a bad proportioning valve.

[BenK]

Been doing my own brakes since early 60's...when high school auto shop teacher had someone do his brakes...first was to use the air hose and 'clean' off all of the brake dust...that stuff floated into the classroom and we all coughed...he said just part of the job...

Brakes are more important, to me that is, than 'go' stuff. I'll never get the kind of mileage you folks do because of the driving style...

Am not sold on ceramic's just yet, but haven't looked into them for over 10 years when buddy was trying them out on his proto-type pads...

There is ceramic and then there is ceramic...meaning the type of ceramic, particulate size/shape, percentage of it in the friction material and the binders. Am sure there are more attributes. First racing ceramic's were almost solid ceramic (think bathroom tile) and the early adopters just sprinkled 'some' ceramic dust into the friction material mix (think early 'steel radial' tires that just had a 2 inch radial 'belt' that killed many highway troopers before they were outed)...hoping the latest stuff is better or as good as folks are saying

Dusting isn't a biggie in my have to have list, but do wish to keep it to a minimum.

Also bleed the whole system at each pad/shoe change. On my Sub, the rears are going to last the life of it, or so it seems. Second set from Praise Dyno and because it is lasting so long, just reminded myself to bleed it...but not the C-Clamp Method...gotta use the old two person or the vacuum system (don't like it much)

Never heard of Akebono and will check them out


Consider doing your own...again...

Here is my method and can bleed both fronts in less time that it takes to get out all the tools/stuff and putting them back....

Brake blead question page2

BenK wrote:
My setup image and can be done by myself with no helper





Use the old pad and do NOT remove it just yet

Turn a bottle of brake fluid upside down in the MC reservoir with the cap removed

Large C-Clamp on the caliper piston and other side. Open the bleeder screw that has a hose to a catch jug

Turn the C-Clamp to push out the old fluid through the bleed screw and into the catch jug

Close the bleeder screw and remove the C-Clamp...or loosen it enough to allow this:

Go into the drivers seat and pump the brake pedal (the engine can be on but I prefer off) until it is firm

Back the caliper and open the bleeder screw and tighten the C-Clamp to force out the fluid in the caliper

Close the bleeder screw

Repeat going up to the drivers seat and pump the brake pedal

This is repeated about 3-4 times, dependent on how large your system is

All new fluid and the last time compressing the C-Clamp...remove the old pads and insert the new pads

Reassembly and that corner is done

Repeat on other corners

I can bleed my Sub's front disc brakes in about 20-30 minutes and the time to bring out the tools and return takes about another 20-30 minutes

[ktmrfs]

Grit dog wrote:
If you question the shop, then question them. You don’t know if they’re feeding you a line or not and we don’t know how you drove for the last 60kmiles.
However 60k on a half ton does sound about time unless you drive with eggs on the pedals!
Low dust, get ceramic, 12V98 is wrong. Good ceramics will stop as well or better than most OE pads, last jsut as long, don’t destroy rotors despite the rumors and VERY LOW DUST!

Power stops we’re reccomended recently. They cost less than the boutique brands.
I’m running EBC pads on the pickup and one car and side by side, they are about 80?% less brake dust than organics or semis.
I’m sure Akebono and Hawk are also very high quality.
And to the ceramic brake haters, sit down before you read this......some OEs use them now too.....
Now gat out of your rocking chair and go yell at someone to get off your lawn!

yup, GM has been sourcing ceramic disk pads for HD truck from Akebono for some years now. And 60K on pads??? Shoot, myself and virtually everyone I know with GM2500/3500's get 200K or more out of a set of factory pads. My old 04.5 that went to our son is now at 180K and will likely need new pads in 20K or so when we checked it a few weeks ago.

And at 180K there is minimal rotor wear.

40K on my 2015.5 duramax and the pads look brand new.

[Grit_dog]

Oh and they’re not shoes anymore. Haven’t been since the 90s. Now they’re pads. Ask for shoes at Autozone and the kid at the counter will send you across the street to Payless!

Drums = shoes
Disc = pads

[Grit_dog]

If you question the shop, then question them. You don’t know if they’re feeding you a line or not and we don’t know how you drove for the last 60kmiles.
However 60k on a half ton does sound about time unless you drive with eggs on the pedals!
Low dust, get ceramic, 12V98 is wrong. Good ceramics will stop as well or better than most OE pads, last jsut as long, don’t destroy rotors despite the rumors and VERY LOW DUST!

Power stops we’re reccomended recently. They cost less than the boutique brands.
I’m running EBC pads on the pickup and one car and side by side, they are about 80?% less brake dust than organics or semis.
I’m sure Akebono and Hawk are also very high quality.
And to the ceramic brake haters, sit down before you read this......some OEs use them now too.....
Now gat out of your rocking chair and go yell at someone to get off your lawn!

[ktmrfs]

If getting rid of dust is important, AND you want near factory performance go with Akebono ceramic brake pads. They are the only aftermarket pads I've ever run that I felt were equal or better than stock for braking performance, no dust and long life.

Akebono ceramic is the factory pad mfg for GM 2500/3500HD trucks. On my 2004.5 that our son now has the factory pads have almost no dust and at 180K miles will need replacing within the next 20K miles.

Akebono's on both my mercedes perform like factory pads and have equal or beter life with no dust.

[jfkmk]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

riven1950 wrote:
OP here: Thanks for all the info folks. I used to do my own brakes way back when I was young. But that was in the day of drum brakes, never messed with disc brakes, and don't really want to.

I have been doing my own brake jobs for about 40 years. I can only remember doing 1 or 2 vehicles with front drum brakes !

I remember those days! I had a '71 Challenger with drum brakes on all four corners before converting the fronts to disc brakes.

OP, drum brakes are much much more difficult to replace than disc brakes.

That being said, I'd definitely have the brake fluid flushed. Also, I've always found that turned rotors don't seem to last as long as new. I'd bite the bullet and replace them.

[APT]

I was always a fan of Wagner Thermoquiet. In the last 15 years, I always plan to replace the rotors and pads together. If I'm spending an hour or two of my time, the rotors are relatively cheap. Plus I tend to warp fronts.

I have had newer vehicles recently and not changed brakes in 8 years, though. After 100k miles on our Suburban, I had some metal on metal sound from the brakes. Front rotors are a little warped, but about hald pad life left. Rears were worn fairly evenly with one pad no friction material left. This time I tried Powerstop Z23 rotors and pads at about $200/axle. So far with 1000 miles I really like them. I have only towed some smaller trailers, but I can feel the improvement already.

[theoldwizard1]

riven1950 wrote:
OP here: Thanks for all the info folks. I used to do my own brakes way back when I was young. But that was in the day of drum brakes, never messed with disc brakes, and don't really want to.

I have been doing my own brake jobs for about 40 years. I can only remember doing 1 or 2 vehicles with front drum brakes !

[Lynnmor]

Your 2007 probably had a larger engine and gearing that helped to slow the truck. Newer vehicles coast freely and brake usage is much higher. Even when not towing, consider downshifting on grades that require much brake use. All brake wear is the result of conditions and how one drives, we all see those that have one of the two pedals mashed at any one time.

[riven1950]

OP here: Thanks for all the info folks. I used to do my own brakes way back when I was young. But that was in the day of drum brakes, never messed with disc brakes, and don't really want to.

Your input is very helpful since I don't really keep up with these things. Was kind of surprised the fronts were gone, but guess the grooves tell the tale. My 2007 f150 had good brakes at 105,000 when I got rid of it. I'm wondering whatever happened to the little metal tabs that squealed when pads were getting low.

Thanks again

[Rustycamperpant]

I do my own brakes like many on this site likely do. I really like the last set I ordered from Autozone for the rear of my Expy. Here is a link if you want to take a look. When the fronts need replacing, I will get the matching set. Slotted and drilled rotors and ceramic pads.

https://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-traction-control/performance-brake-pads-rotors-kit/power-stop-performance-brake-pads-rotors-kit/731230_785014_0_4024?&searchText=K468336

[mtofell1]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

riven1950 wrote:
3-Rear brakes are still ok they say, although getting close. Any reason to do both at same time other than convenience?

Hard to believe that rears are "close". Most vehicles the rear shoes/pads "rot" before they wear out.

I was just at the dealer for an oil change and my "report card" said I had 7mm on the front and 5mm on the rear. I thought for sure it was a mistake but the service writer told me they started putting thinner pads on the rear so they all wear out at the same time. It's the first I'd ever head of that and my Ram dealer well may be wrong but I suppose it's possible.

[p220sigman]

With my car, it was virtually the same price buying new rotors as it was getting the old ones turned and I didn't have to take them off and take them to be turned. Just pull the new ones out of the box. I would at least compare the cost of replacing to turning.

I would be very surprised if the rears are worn out at 60K miles. I've never put rear brakes on any vehicle I've owned at less than 120K miles with the exception of one truck on which one of the shoes fractured at about 80K. Still had about half of it's pad material remaining. The only time a store (tire store) tried to sell us (my wife) on replacing the rears, they were trying to rip her off. The pads were in excellent shape with more than 1/2 their material remaining. Fortunately, I told her to have them put it back together and we took it to our regular mechanic who confirmed there was no problem with the rears.

I agree that replacing the fluid is probably due. I usually do the replacement when I replace pads as well. I usually put the vehicle on jack stands to rotate the tires at the same time and replacing the fluid only takes a few minutes. I have a dedicated turkey baster I use to suck most of the fluid out of the reservoir before adding new and then bleeding the lines to get new fluid.

[time2roll]

I recommend a fluid flush at every brake pad/shoe replacement.

Wagner premium pads are fine.

My rotors have 200,000 miles on them and never turned. I just slap on pads and run. Works fine. Grooves could mean you waited a bit too long. I would just get new rotors as it never seems like it is just a little extra over turning them. Do not turn new rotors, they are ready to go.

Do the rears in 12 to 24 months. Most places recommend replacement way too early anyway.