Who's Looking Out for Our Interests?

[4X4Dodger]

As a group of people that have a single interest at heart (RV's and all that goes with that term) It seems to me that we are terribly under-represented in the halls of government and with almost no clout as a group with Manufacturers, Suppliers and Dealers.

While Good Sam Enterprises tries to position itself as our champion especially with their two sister publications Trailer Life and Motorhome. They really are businesses intended to make a profit and not consumer advocacy organizations.

While these two publications try to fill part of the consumer advocacy role with their RV Resolutions columns they still are a creature of their advertisers.

I have now read TL cover to cover for 6 months and some disturbing things are clear:

Their "reviews" or "tests" they do of new trailer models are basically not much more than thinly veiled advertisements with very little in the way of criticism or (God Forbid) Asking some hard questions like:

How is the Roof constructed?

Why are there no SHOCK ABsorbers?

Why are the tire Ratings so LOW?

Etc.

Further they have a huge bias in content and "reviews" that favors the Huge, Expensive, Luxo 5th Wheel trailers. Trailers that the vast majority of us do not own nor can afford. Dreaming is nice and they should spotlight those models on occasion, but their focus needs to be more realistic to their readers needs and interests.

We as a group deserve better from the major publication that purports to represent us as consumers. The great Car magazines Road and Track, Motor Trend et al made a REAL name for themselves by calling a dog a dog. And giving due praise where deserved, while pushing manufacturers to do better.

Unfortunately Trailer Life and Motorhome are creatures of their advertisers to such a great extent that I fear they will never really take on the single major isssue in this area: Quality Construction.

What we need is a publication and an organization that really represents the interests of RV owners. To government, to Manufacturers and Dealers and to Suppliers. Good Sam Enterprises is NOT it.

So Here is a Challenge to you Mr. Marcus Lemonis. (CEO Of Good Sam Ent.) Remember it is the RV'ers of this country that have made you what you are. Show us that you take our concerns to heart, put some teeth in those two old dogs you own, Trailer Life and Motorhome. Start Asking the HARD questions. Start doing "REAL" reviews that highlight the shortcomings, serious and otherwise of ALL the products you write about. Stop doing so much "Press Release Journalism" and start actually investigating.

In other words pay us back for all of the support and money we as a group have paid you over the years... That's not asking too much.


What do the rest of you think? I'd love to hear the comments on this issue.

[pasusan]

Chris Bryant wrote:

Who's Looking Out for Our Interests?

http://rv.org/about.htm

Unfortunately, most (if not all, these days) business is not at all concerned with long term issues, they are just interested in shareholder return in the short term.

This is true.

We must look out for our own selves --- 'cuz nobody else will --- it's not in their best interests.

[Jayco-noslide]

The comments to use our wallets, etc, aren't helpful. How in the heck does the buyer really evaluate the quality of an RV. I've tried and I can't beyond using brand name, price, etc.

[kcmoedoe]

tll wrote:

rk911 wrote:
your premise assumes that every TT, TC, MH and 5'er is junk...different levels of junk but junk nonetheless. I don't agree with that premise. there is a vast difference between junk and maintenance requirements. how many problems that we read about have their toot cause in poor maintenance, maybe no maintenance (I personally know people that NEVER change the oil in the vehicles) or who otherwise abuse their vehicles.

Maybe "junk" is to strong of a word. I do understand the maintenance aspect. I just want things assembled properly in the first place.

2112 wrote:
Buy Used !!!

If we all did that there would be no manufactures.



I have been in the marine industry for 35 years. If you wanted to buy a 18' boat, you could by a $15,000 entry level Bayliner or a $25,000 higher end Cobalt. There would be a vast difference in construction quality. Not so in the RV industry. If you wanted to purchase a 25' TT and compared several manufactures with the same floor plan and construction methods, you would find that the pricing was all fairly similar. You can find pricing differences in regards to warranty length or upgrades, but not when really comparing apples to apples. Where is that RV manufacture that offers the average consumer a top quality TT?

Funny you should mention Bayliner. Years ago I bought a Bayliner the same year some boating magazine named it "boat of the Year". Needless to say, that magazine must have had the best interests of boat repair shops in mind. That Bayliner was every bit as crappy as any Travel Trailer you can buy today. I eventually moved up to a Sea Ray and paid a steep price for quality and in my opinion it was worth it.
I am not sure there is a demand to pay for quality in the RV business, especially at the travel trailer level. You can buy quality in Class B, Class C and especially Class A. Just have to be willing to open the wallet wide. Some people do, but many don't. That's why there are more Damon and Forest River Class A's sold than Newell and Foretravels.
As for publications that would eviscerate the quality of all RVs, I think another poster hit the nail on the head. The manufacturers volunteer their rigs for review. If all they got back was a bunch of bad press, they would stop really quick. Consumer Reports is a bad example. They buy all the items they test. They can afford to buy a refrigerator and sell it after they are done, they lose a few hundred bucks at most. They can even resell their cars at only a few thousand dollars of loss. But a used Class A motorhome is going to lose 10s of thousands of dollars going from new to used. Test and compare 5 of them and the losses are in the hundreds of thousands. Got to sell a whole lot of magazines at $10.00 to just make it to break even. And that would only get you reviews on 5 of what are probably 1000 different Classes, makes and models.

[captnjack]

BOAT/US is a boat owners group with about a million members, IIRC. That is a lot of clout. Manufacturers cannot ignore them. They advocate for the interests of boat owners as far as legal, financial, warranty issues, insurance, education, safety etc. I find it to be a very valuable tool. This is what is needed in the RV industry. I am unaware of such a group. But someone has to start it at the grass roots level. This is a hard thing to do, especially with so many RV owners constanttly on the move.

[Homer1]

Pitch X 2

[pitch]

The RVIA is a lobby and marketing group for the RV industry, nothing more!

[et2]

Maybe you can start here


Standards
The RVIA Standards Department serves as administrator of the RVIA inspection program based on the adopted standards for construction of recreational & conversion vehicles and Recreational Park Trailers. The Standards Department has maintained as its primary goal the enhancement of safety through the monitoring of the member manufacturer's pledge to build units to these adopted standards. In addition, in an effort to promote and protect the RV industry and its members the Standards Department is committed to providing educational opportunities and training tools for the member manufacturers to utilize in order to meet the Association goals.
Within this section are numerous categories that provide additional information on technical bulletins, adopted standards, code and handbook enforcement making process, training documents and related educational seminars.
RVIA organizes standards in the following way:



http://www.rvia.org/?ESID=standards

[et2]

It's been said on this forum many times over the years I've been here. The US auto industry suffered a tailspin when foreign competitors took our business because they made a quality car, with more options, at better prices.

Now they make them here and employ us to build them, providing jobs and economic benefits. It forced the US manufactures to scramble and up their game or go out of business ( which almost happened numerous times). It's only after the last decade or so we've seen a turnaround. People spoke with their wallets and it turned the tide.

This is what it'll take for the RV industry to reach the point the OP discusses. The problem is it will never happen. Most people can't afford this "hobby" as it's a luxury to most. It doesn't get them to work, or to the doctors, or kids to school, or to the grocery store. It's not part of their daily lives like a automobile is ( not a necessity). So we are a small part in comparison to the population. There's just not enough money to be made like there is going after the automobile market. This is why we have companies like Thor buying up their competition and building a lesser quality product. Because they can.

There are a few high end MH and trailer builders that build high quality product. The problem for most of us is we can't afford them. They cater to a select clientele and have no reason to build something affordable for the rest of us. And why should they.

It will never change. Over the years we've made the best decisions we could based on personal experiences, research, and the money we had available. But just like most people have been left disappointed with build quality. We've learned to try and roll with whatever comes up. It ain't worth worrying about, after all it's all about having fun.

[tll]

rk911 wrote:
your premise assumes that every TT, TC, MH and 5'er is junk...different levels of junk but junk nonetheless. I don't agree with that premise. there is a vast difference between junk and maintenance requirements. how many problems that we read about have their toot cause in poor maintenance, maybe no maintenance (I personally know people that NEVER change the oil in the vehicles) or who otherwise abuse their vehicles.

Maybe "junk" is to strong of a word. I do understand the maintenance aspect. I just want things assembled properly in the first place.

2112 wrote:
Buy Used !!!

If we all did that there would be no manufactures.



I have been in the marine industry for 35 years. If you wanted to buy a 18' boat, you could by a $15,000 entry level Bayliner or a $25,000 higher end Cobalt. There would be a vast difference in construction quality. Not so in the RV industry. If you wanted to purchase a 25' TT and compared several manufactures with the same floor plan and construction methods, you would find that the pricing was all fairly similar. You can find pricing differences in regards to warranty length or upgrades, but not when really comparing apples to apples. Where is that RV manufacture that offers the average consumer a top quality TT?

[Carlos___Ranae]

Hallelujah to PA12DRVR and 4X4Dodger. If someone starts a magazine that advocates for RV,ears, please sign me up for a subscription.

[2112]

tll wrote:
The OP is simply challenging Trailer Life magazine to call a spade a spade, hoping that Good Sam is big enough to stand up to the manufactures and force them to improve their quality. I think they are, and wouldn't deny the opportunity to sell Camping World their products.

We can't improve the quality of RV's by walking with our wallet. We want to go camping, and need to purchase the equipment the best suits our needs. The only thing we can do is research and use our opinions to purchase the "least poorly constructed" product. To truly walk with our wallet will be to abandon our pastime and switch to boating, playing golf etc... That's not going to happen, so we will have to keep buying junk. I would have gladly paid several thousand more for a better put together trailer. This is mostly in regards to having the assembly workers actually doing their job to a higher level of quality.

Buy Used !!!

[rk911]

tll wrote:
The OP is simply challenging Trailer Life magazine to call a spade a spade, hoping that Good Sam is big enough to stand up to the manufactures and force them to improve their quality. I think they are, and wouldn't deny the opportunity to sell Camping World their products.

We can't improve the quality of RV's by walking with our wallet. We want to go camping, and need to purchase the equipment the best suits our needs. The only thing we can do is research and use our opinions to purchase the "least poorly constructed" product. To truly walk with our wallet will be to abandon our pastime and switch to boating, playing golf etc... That's not going to happen, so we will have to keep buying junk. I would have gladly paid several thousand more for a better put together trailer. This is mostly in regards to having the assembly workers actually doing their job to a higher level of quality.

your premise assumes that every TT, TC, MH and 5'er is junk...different levels of junk but junk nonetheless. I don't agree with that premise. there is a vast difference between junk and maintenance requirements. how many problems that we read about have their toot cause in poor maintenance, maybe no maintenance (I personally know people that NEVER change the oil in the vehicles) or who otherwise abuse their vehicles.

[tll]

The OP is simply challenging Trailer Life magazine to call a spade a spade, hoping that Good Sam is big enough to stand up to the manufactures and force them to improve their quality. I think they are, and wouldn't deny the opportunity to sell Camping World their products.

We can't improve the quality of RV's by walking with our wallet. We want to go camping, and need to purchase the equipment the best suits our needs. The only thing we can do is research and use our opinions to purchase the "least poorly constructed" product. To truly walk with our wallet will be to abandon our pastime and switch to boating, playing golf etc... That's not going to happen, so we will have to keep buying junk. I would have gladly paid several thousand more for a better put together trailer. This is mostly in regards to having the assembly workers actually doing their job to a higher level of quality.

[bukhrn]

Newbiecampers wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
As a group of people that have a single interest at heart (RV's and all that goes with that term) It seems to me that we are terribly under-represented in the halls of government and with almost no clout as a group with Manufacturers, Suppliers and Dealers.

No clout? You/we have one of the biggest pieces of "clout" in existence: Your Wallet. Don't like what is going on? Then close it. They will listen to money, or the lack thereof. I wish people would wake up to the power that is their wallet and the ability to not open it up.

Who's Looking Out for Our Interests?

To me, this is one of the largest problems in our society today: the whole "who is going to look out for/protect me" and victim mentality. Perhaps people should take some personnal responsibility and look out for themselves.

The absolute last thing we need is more government involvement or regulation.

Are you kidding me, when do American take personal responsibility for Anything, We go to a bar & slosh down drinks until we can't see or barely walk, then get behind the wheel of our Corvette and drive, when we get in an accident we sue the bar tender that sold us the booze even though he never twisted our arm & forced us to drink it. :S Collectively, we never take responsibility for our selves.

[PA12DRVR]

"We as a group deserve better from the major publication that purports to represent us as consumers."

Why? Says who? This is just an allegation without any support.

If one doesn't like the publication, don't buy it. If RV's are too shoddy, don't buy them. Simple as that.